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FORUMS General Gear Talk Data Storage, Memory Cards & Backup
Thread started 23 Aug 2017 (Wednesday) 08:19
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Crash Plan changes course - Going Enterprise only, no personal backup

 
Charlie
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Aug 24, 2017 18:55 |  #16

Talley wrote in post #18436024 (external link)
At this point I think two NAS raid devices setup at the same time and then have one at source and other at parents house and cloud sync them together is the best bet. Now to see if some of these NAS drives have versioning.

I manage 38 computers at our jobsite as one of my side responsibilities and I have wireless networks being broadcasted over a mile in some locations but they all tie back to our main trailer and we use a 4 bay Qnap w/ 4 512gb SSD drives as our data drive that we all work off of. I have it setup for RAID 5 and it's a beast that never gives up over the past 3 years on this project.

I have everyone mapped to it and everyone is required to use it instead of their own computers for all of their file creation and such. So I can do this easily. Yup Just checked they do:

https://www.qnap.com ...ta-with-backup-versioning (external link)

So at this point I'll probably lean away from backblaze and manage this myself.

I'm thinking versioning is way overkill. The example they use for versioning is software coding, where previous code is saved. This is ok for some languages, maybe really old stuff, but if you're using true software management systems, versioning will this way will seem like total crap. For photographers, "Save as" is basically versioning. I'm having a hard time trying to figure how versioning ties in with well... anything other than software.


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tim
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Aug 24, 2017 19:24 |  #17

Charlie wrote in post #18436198 (external link)
I'm thinking versioning is way overkill. The example they use for versioning is software coding, where previous code is saved. This is ok for some languages, maybe really old stuff, but if you're using true software management systems, versioning will this way will seem like total crap. For photographers, "Save as" is basically versioning. I'm having a hard time trying to figure how versioning ties in with well... anything other than software.

Ransomware and viruses can encrypt your files. If you don't notice before a backup you could lose all your data if you don't have versioned / incremental backups. This is why synchronisation is not a backup.


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Charlie
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Aug 24, 2017 19:52 |  #18

tim wrote in post #18436212 (external link)
Ransomware and viruses can encrypt your files. If you don't notice before a backup you could lose all your data if you don't have versioned / incremental backups. This is why synchronisation is not a backup.

well, I'm not talking about synchronization, when I run my backups, I get visibility to what is replaced or added. If there's a request to replace something old, then there probably is a problem and I'de look into it. You cant let those things run fully automatic, unless you enforce a no overwrite rule.


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mike_d
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Aug 24, 2017 20:04 |  #19

tim wrote in post #18436212 (external link)
Ransomware and viruses can encrypt your files. If you don't notice before a backup you could lose all your data if you don't have versioned / incremental backups. This is why synchronisation is not a backup.

I agree that versioning is a critical component of a good backup plan. It guards against latent issues that can really bite you on the butt. In addition to malware, I'll provide two examples of how being able to roll back to to a prior version of a file saved countless hours of heartache:

1) A guy I know uses a spreadsheet in his business that he could not re-create on his own. Every month, he modifies it and does a SAVE AS to save his changes to a new file. One day, he accidentally hit SAVE instead. Original spreadsheet gone. Luckily he uses Crashplan and was able to revert to a prior version in minutes.

2) I store some important contact in an Outlook PST file. One day, I discovered that category data for many contacts had been deleted. I only discovered this when I did something I do once every few months. Luckily, I use Crashplan and was able to look at the deep version history for this file and see a point about two month prior when the file size inexplicably changed dramatically. I restored before the version just before that point and everything was back.




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mike_d
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Aug 24, 2017 20:07 |  #20

Charlie wrote in post #18436235 (external link)
well, I'm not talking about synchronization, when I run my backups, I get visibility to what is replaced or added. If there's a request to replace something old, then there probably is a problem and I'de look into it. You cant let those things run fully automatic, unless you enforce a no overwrite rule.


99% of people I know would rather go to the dentist and the proctologist in the same day than manage their backups. It's great if you have the discipline, time, and knowledge to manually backup and verify that you're not overwriting good data with bad data, but that's not realistic for most people.




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tim
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Aug 24, 2017 20:09 |  #21

Charlie wrote in post #18436235 (external link)
well, I'm not talking about synchronization, when I run my backups, I get visibility to what is replaced or added. If there's a request to replace something old, then there probably is a problem and I'de look into it. You cant let those things run fully automatic, unless you enforce a no overwrite rule.

Fully automated backups are a good way to ensure you have up to date backups, for most people. There's no practical way to monitor a backup at the volume of data most people have.


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Talley
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Aug 24, 2017 21:31 |  #22

Charlie wrote in post #18436198 (external link)
I'm thinking versioning is way overkill. The example they use for versioning is software coding, where previous code is saved. This is ok for some languages, maybe really old stuff, but if you're using true software management systems, versioning will this way will seem like total crap. For photographers, "Save as" is basically versioning. I'm having a hard time trying to figure how versioning ties in with well... anything other than software.


As mentioned though I use backblaze and the problem with them is they only keep backup for 30 days. IF somehow I had files get deleted and I didn't notice it until 6 months later... too late... it's gone...

So for archival purposes having periodic versioning would be important to keep that from happening. Same true for viruses/hijacks etc.

I'll still use my backblaze but I'll build my own cloud with versioning and have a 4 bay setup at my dads and at my house. I won't worry about raid since it'll be redundant in 4 places:

1. My computer
2. Backblaze from my computer
3. NAS 4 bay at my house
4. Nas 4 bay at my dads house synced to mine.

I don't see what's more to need beyond that.


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Charlie
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Aug 24, 2017 21:34 |  #23

mike_d wrote in post #18436248 (external link)
99% of people I know would rather go to the dentist and the proctologist in the same day than manage their backups. It's great if you have the discipline, time, and knowledge to manually backup and verify that you're not overwriting good data with bad data, but that's not realistic for most people.

Why isn't it? It's software, there is a report generated if there are conflicts, it's generally less than a page.

Unattended backups run into the sense of false security, you can run into a scenario where you run out of space if versioning goes rampant.


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mike_d
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Aug 24, 2017 21:51 |  #24

Charlie wrote in post #18436311 (external link)
Why isn't it? It's software, there is a report generated if there are conflicts, it's generally less than a page.

Unattended backups run into the sense of false security, you can run into a scenario where you run out of space if versioning goes rampant.

As I said, most people have no interest in putting any effort into their backups, thus the need for automation. Crashplan gives weekly reports by email showing how many files and GB have been backed up and when the device was last seen. I know people who don't even bother reading that and ignore the emails about impending account suspension due to an expired credit card. If they can't be bothered to open an email, they're sure not going to manually backup their files and read (and understand and act upon) a conflict report. At least with an automated backup, there's some chance at protection.




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FlexiPack
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Aug 26, 2017 17:19 |  #25

Charlie wrote in post #18435323 (external link)
+1 I have a brother and mother, I can setup a NAS and DNS service, and I'm good. My mom is my current cloud, using an old and inexpensive NAS going on 6+ years now.

There are big guys like amazon, but even then, they can end up monopolizing and upping rates, they have already raised rates on prime a few years back, they can do it again.

Would you mind sharing your set-up for your offsite NAS backup?


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jcothron
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Aug 26, 2017 17:46 |  #26

I use local externals, an offsite nas, amazon s3, and cloudberry to manage it all.

I use goodsync and have for years, but this is just to keep synced files locally on an external hd. It does a very good job.


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Charlie
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Aug 27, 2017 00:11 |  #27

FlexiPack wrote in post #18437753 (external link)
Would you mind sharing your set-up for your offsite NAS backup?

my off site and home NAS can communicate both ways, and when setup the way I have it, you can do online security as well as remote irrigation systems (I have all).

hardware = 2 NAS with 4TB each. Any decent NAS will have FTP, that's what I use to transfer.

I use dyndns to give me my dns (some routers offer this free so read into when purchasing). Basically a website name that is provided to me to route all web traffic to my modem/router. So I get something like myhomeaddress.self-ip.com. That address points to my home address. I use dyndns because most routers support dyndns accounts, so if I use a dynamic IP from my cable/phone provider, when the IP changes, my router updates the info at dyndns to be able to find my home PC.

so now that I have my personal website, I can setup my router to point to my NAS ftp. I setup port forwarding from 9191 to 21. 21 is the standard port for FTP, but you dont want the public to know that, likelihood of hackers crawling all over you is due to using the conventional port, so avoid it.

I repeat on my moms house, and now I can connect to her using http://mymomshouse.sel​f-ip.com:9191 (external link)

of course I have to setup ftp on both NAS. Nice thing about this setup is that when on vacation, I can FTP files home as a backup, provided I have the bandwidth.

as of this writing, it's unfortunate, but I dont see the reasonable prices at dyndns. it was very inexpensive and I had at least a 5 year subscription for a very low price. No-ip still offers $25 per year for 25 hostnames.... you can share the hostnames with family to split costs, but they use to be a whole lot less since they didnt make you buy 25, but only 10. There is a free option, but a hassle.


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Crash Plan changes course - Going Enterprise only, no personal backup
FORUMS General Gear Talk Data Storage, Memory Cards & Backup


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