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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting
Thread started 05 Sep 2017 (Tuesday) 01:51
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Rotolight Neo 2 - Legit replacement for OCF?

 
bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
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Sep 20, 2017 10:36 |  #31

Daggah wrote in post #18456304 (external link)
He was within flash sync speed, so not using HSS. If f/1.4 is pushing the light to its absolute limit at base ISO, that is NOT a good sign for power.

I didn't see 1/250 ss. I thought at HSS at much higher speeds like 1/4000 or more.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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wilvoeka
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Sep 21, 2017 10:36 |  #32

bobbyz wrote in post #18450141 (external link)
Found this from their web site:

[I]3 feet (0.9m) :
Lux: 2000
Foot candles (fc) : 194
Lumen : 1032

As a out put comparison. A $3 Sylvania 100w equivalent bulb puts out 1500 lumens.

A Westcott Spyder lite with 5 100w equivalent bulbs would put out way more power and would be easily powered by a vagabond mini (only drawing 70 watts total).

You wouldn't get the flash feature of the Neo2 but I haven't seen anything very compelling that that is a use full feature at the moment.




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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Sep 25, 2017 11:08 |  #33

Here is the latest Neo 2 video put out by Jason Lanier. https://www.youtube.co​m ...tr_tag=1O5ZCNGCvzgx​QX8r-6 (external link). He is attempting to show the audience that in daylight the Rotolight has enough power to affect a portrait shoot. The point of the video (at least what it seemed to me) is that he's wanting to instill confidence in his viewership about the strobe power capabilities of the Neo 2, but for me it did the opposite. Of course he doesn't include the power of the light in his video, while he does include the exposure triangle. He shoots most of the images at f1.4, and he confidently states at one point "I'm standing 8-9 feet away and you can see the NEO has enough power to create catchlights." He acts like this is an amazing accomplishment, when you could hold up a pen sized light and do the same thing in daylight.

Jason's hard sell on this light and not being upfront about it's capabilities has really turned me off to a product that I was highly interested in when I first read about it.


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Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

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Daggah
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Joined Jun 2014
Sep 26, 2017 02:32 as a reply to Jarvis Creative Studios's post |  #34

Jason's hard sell of this light has turned me off of all of his content. What a sell-out.


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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by Jarvis Creative Studios.
Sep 27, 2017 15:11 |  #35

After some consideration (and a significant sale currently going on at Adorama), I went with the Flashpoint EVOLV200 light with the additional LED head. It won't have the LED power of the NEO 2 but there will be no comparison in strobe power (which is what I need more anyway). Each light is $100 less ($75 less when you add the LED head), much more versatile with the bare bulb and flash head, has built in HSS and TTL, is compatible with all my godox flashes with no triggers (saves $250 off the NEO trigger that wouldn't work with anything else), and can fit into my generic bowens mount modifiers (saves $220 on the modifiers).

***One last thing to anyone considering buying the Rotolight NEO 2***. Jason Lanier and Rotolight have been marketing this light as a strobe and HSS flash. Well we all now know the flash sucks, and I just found out that apparently the light does not have built in HSS. In order to access the HSS, it looks like you have to buy a $100 HSS receiver that would go between your camera and the light. This is atrocious. If you want to do OCF with this light you will have to spend a minimum of $750 for one light, not including batteries or modifiers.

If you need a strobe, please do what I did and go for this. https://www.adorama.co​m ...e+kit&searchredirec​t=true (external link). (not an affiliate link incase you were wondering) That's a flashpoint ELOLV with all three heads (LED, flash, bare bulb), an OCF HSS trigger, the dual head bowens mount, a single head bowens mount adapter, a 31" x 31" softbox, gels, barn doors, a grid, two grippy skins for the light, all for almost half the price of what you would need to get started with the NEO 2. That sale is only good for Sony users, but other users can still buy the EVOLV 200, remote, and LED head only for $375.

P.S. If anyone does have the Rotolight NEO 2, I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

EDIT: I see now that the HSS receiver I listed above says "not needed with the NEO 2" on the Rotolight website, which leads me to believe that the NEO 2 has built in HSS. I don't know why it's listed on the NEO page if the NEO 2 has built in HSS and the NEO 1 does not have flash.


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Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

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bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by bobbyz.
Sep 27, 2017 18:36 |  #36

Wise decision to go with AD200:) I watched Jason's latest video. Now he is saying on camera flash is the way to go. Just wish the NEO2 is available where other folks can do a better side by side on it.


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by Jarvis Creative Studios.
Sep 27, 2017 19:00 |  #37

bobbyz wrote in post #18461762 (external link)
Wise decision to go with AD200:) I watched Jason's latest video. Now he is saying on camera flash is the way to go. Just wish the NEO2 is available where other folks can do a better side by side on it.

I was almost on the floor laughing when he said (in the video I posted above) "I'm standing about 10 feet from the model, and still getting a nice light on the model from the NEO 2. Now, maybe you could get this look with a traditional flash, but I've never seen it done before."

This is why most of the people interacting in his FB group are people who have hardly ever picked up a camera and / or used lighting before. They're oblivious and will take whatever he says as gospel. Jason has sunk to the level of Ken Rockwell unfortunately. He's preaching to the uninformed and they're blindly following.


WEBSITE (external link)
flickr (external link)
Sony HX90V || Sony RX100V || Sony a6500 || Sony a9 || Sony E 10-18mm f/4 OSS || Sony FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM || Sony Sonnar T* FE 35mm f/2.8 ZA || Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f1.8 ZA || Sony FE 70-200 f/2.8 GM OSS || Godox speedlights and strobes

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Daggah
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Sep 28, 2017 02:23 as a reply to Jarvis Creative Studios's post |  #38

Actually...Ken is more legitimate. He pulls his **** out of his own ass. He doesn't just forward it from whatever company's marketing department wants to send him some money.


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Jarvis ­ Creative ­ Studios
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Sep 29, 2017 15:06 |  #39

The managing director at Rotolight just told me that the strobe feature on the Rotolight NEO 2 is "a lot more powerful than the new profoto A1". For those of you who don't know the A1 is the new speedlight (they call it a small studio light) that is coming out soon from profoto. That light is supposed to be top of the line when it comes to flash power, and I don't see how in the world the NEO 2 could be more powerful.

Here is his whole comment:

"we have published online, and in the manual a full fstop table will feature that in the video but the basic point is that just giving you a guide number doesn't tell you anything. You are ALWAYS going to Modify a strobe or speedlite because it's Natively much hasher" (harsher) "than a light with 192 light sources and a surface area 10X bigger, you loose" (lose) "a huge Amount of all quoted output from a speedlite when you diffuse or bounce it whereas with NEO 2 all of the power is real and usable. Watts seconds is also irrelevant for led as it relates to power consumption not to brightness which is why An led lightbulb for your home says "equivalent to 100 watts" but it is actually only a 12W bulb.....it is totally unnecessary on modern cameras to shoot everything at iso 100 which is what a guide number is quoted at. There is no noise whatsoever on a Sony up to at least iso 400 if not 800 so quoting a guide number at 100 is just not relevant for 21st century cameras. That being said we have published a full fstop and guide number table already but will feature it in the table!" (I think he meant video. He's referring to videos that will be coming out soon.) "I can tell you it's a lot more powerful than the new profoto A1 which is also more than twice the price haha!"

When I asked him to confirm that he was speaking of the strobe power being "much more powerful" than the profoto A1, he replied, "yep".

Interesting stuff for sure. Seems that some people are now getting the NEO 2 light in, so I can't wait to see some real world reviews (that aren't Jason Lanier) coming out.

I searched online for the "full fstop table" he refers to multiple times, and found nothing. The only thing I found was that image that I attached below. That chart is super confusing and uses measurements usually reserved for homes or office building lighting. He also says the table is in the manual, which they have a link for online. But that link leads to a 404 Not Found Error. No manual.

From everything I've seen (even in Jason's videos) there is no way this thing produces near the light of a tradtional speedlight. Maybe in technicalities it's producing more light, but I feel there will be SIGNIFICANT light fall off from those tiny LEDs vs a speedlight. I'm just imagining bouncing a speedlight into a white ceiling. It fills a whole small room with light. I don't see the NEO 2 being able to do something like that.

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RDKirk
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Sep 29, 2017 16:55 |  #40

Jarvis Creative Studios wrote in post #18462946 (external link)
The managing director at Rotolight just told me that the strobe feature on the Rotolight NEO 2 is "a lot more powerful than the new profoto A1". For those of you who don't know the A1 is the new speedlight (they call it a small studio light) that is coming out soon from profoto. That light is supposed to be top of the line when it comes to flash power, and I don't see how in the world the NEO 2 could be more powerful.

Here is his whole comment:

"we have published online, and in the manual a full fstop table will feature that in the video but the basic point is that just giving you a guide number doesn't tell you anything. You are ALWAYS going to Modify a strobe or speedlite because it's Natively much hasher" (harsher) "than a light with 192 light sources and a surface area 10X bigger, you loose" (lose) "a huge Amount of all quoted output from a speedlite when you diffuse or bounce it whereas with NEO 2 all of the power is real and usable. Watts seconds is also irrelevant for led as it relates to power consumption not to brightness which is why An led lightbulb for your home says "equivalent to 100 watts" but it is actually only a 12W bulb.....it is totally unnecessary on modern cameras to shoot everything at iso 100 which is what a guide number is quoted at. There is no noise whatsoever on a Sony up to at least iso 400 if not 800 so quoting a guide number at 100 is just not relevant for 21st century cameras. That being said we have published a full fstop and guide number table already but will feature it in the table!" (I think he meant video. He's referring to videos that will be coming out soon.) "I can tell you it's a lot more powerful than the new profoto A1 which is also more than twice the price haha!"

There wouldn't be a reason for him to mention ISOs at length unless the Rotolight needs higher ISOs. Even given that higher ISOs are useable, that only means a more powerful light is still more effective in more difficult situations than a less powerful light.

He tries to make a comparison between the surface area of the Rotolight and the need to modify a speedlight, but you said, you can bounce a decent speedlight from a ceiling (much more softening than the square foot area of Rotolight) and still get a good level of illumination and action stopping flash within a fairly short (180-250) shutter speed. No, I don't think the Rotolight can match that either.

And a speedlight fits my bag with ease.




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bobbyz
Cream of the Crop
18,521 posts
Joined Nov 2007
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Post has been edited 29 days ago by bobbyz.
Nov 11, 2017 23:43 |  #41

Just saw his latest video as somehow Google Now seems to think I am interested in knowing about this Neo2 stuff. Anyways he starts right of the bat with how powerful this light is. At least he has numbers this time, double diffused.:

1/50, f2.8, ISO640

No mention of distance but hey, that is not that important, isn't it. So if I do math, it is equivalent to 1/50, f1.4, ISO160.

I think last time I tested my AD200 in a double diffused softbox, I got like f8 if not f11 at 6 feet at ISO100. This was with the cheaper bracket where there is light loss from the back. So you telling me Neo2 is quite powerful?


5dmk3, 35L, 85L II, 300mm f2.8 IS I, 400mm f5.6
Fuji XT-1, 14mm f2.8, 23mm f1.4, 35mm f1.4, 56mm f1.2, 90mm f2, 50-140mm f2.8

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Lotto
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Nov 12, 2017 00:49 |  #42

He's not lying that the Neo2 is quite powerful when shooting at f1.4 and high ISO in almost complete darkness.

In the episode of natural light vs flash with Irene under bright daylight, he used the AD600 :)


5D, 24-105L, 70-200L IS, 85mm Art, Godox

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AlFooteIII
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Joined Jul 2013
New York City
Nov 26, 2017 18:15 as a reply to Jarvis Creative Studios's post |  #43

Love the opening shots of that video(couldn't watch the whole thing). :-P Out of curiosity, when he does shoot outside, does he ever show shots of just ambient vs. ambient plus the Rotolight? I'm betting there's little to no difference...


Specializing in Theatrical Photography. See my work at:
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Rotolight Neo 2 - Legit replacement for OCF?
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