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Thread started 05 Sep 2017 (Tuesday) 22:54
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Putting a 50mm on a 7D2

 
George ­ Zip
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Sep 05, 2017 22:54 |  #1

I understand that putting a 50 mm a crop sensor you need to take into account the 1.6x effect. I also understand that the DOF changes as well.

What I am not sure about and can not find by googling is:

On a crop camera the 50mm will equal 80mm. Does this also mean you will get the same focal length qualities of an 80 on a full frame camera? So what I am asking is do you get similar qualities using a 50mm 1.4 on a crop sensor as you would using the 85mm on a full frame? I know there will be 5mm to consider and the DOF will be a bit different but overall will it be in the ballpark??

I hope this makes sense.




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SkipD
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Post has been last edited 15 days ago by SkipD. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 05, 2017 23:19 |  #2

George Zip wrote in post #18445589 (external link)
I understand that putting a 50 mm a crop sensor you need to take into account the 1.6x effect. I also understand that the DOF changes as well.

What I am not sure about and can not find by googling is:

On a crop camera the 50mm will equal 80mm. Does this also mean you will get the same focal length qualities of an 80 on a full frame camera? So what I am asking is do you get similar qualities using a 50mm 1.4 on a crop sensor as you would using the 85mm on a full frame? I know there will be 5mm to consider and the DOF will be a bit different but overall will it be in the ballpark??

I hope this makes sense.

Do you have experience with using a variety of focal lengths on so-called "full-frame" 35mm film cameras? If not, you can totally forget everything about math regarding the "1.6 effect" or any other name for it such as "crop factor". Simply choose a focal length that gives you the framing you want with the camera located where you want it to be.

Changing where the camera is located will change the perspective (relative sizes of elements of the scene which are different distances from the camera) so I recommend choosing the location of the camera for the resulting perspective and then choosing the focal length for framing. Many photographers don't really understand this and they often incorrectly believe that changing the focal length will change the perspective.

George Zip wrote in post #18445589 (external link)
On a crop camera the 50mm will equal 80mm.

This is not correct.

What is true is that the framing of the subject with a 50mm lens on a so-called "crop" camera such as a 7D (and the many others) will be about the same as with an 80mm lens on a so-called "full-frame" camera as long as both cameras are in the same position for making the comparison images.

George Zip wrote in post #18445589 (external link)
Does this also mean you will get the same focal length qualities of an 80 on a full frame camera?

What do you really mean by "focal length qualities"?


Skip Douglas
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Wilt
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Post has been edited 15 days ago by Wilt.
Sep 05, 2017 23:26 |  #3

  • A 50mm lens mounted on APS-C body, when focused on something 120" away, sees a FOV of 35"v x 53"h with a (20/20 vision viewer) DOF zone of 5.35" at f/2.8


  1. A 80mm lens mounted on FF body, when focused on something 120" away, sees a FOV of 35"v x 53"h with a (20/20 vision viewer) DOF zone of 3.3" at f/2.8
  2. A 80mm lens mounted on FF body, when focused on something 120" away, sees a FOV of 35"v x 53"h with a (20/20 vision viewer) DOF zone of 4.7" at f/4
  3. A 80mm lens mounted on FF body, when focused on something 120" away, sees a FOV of 35"v x 53"h with a (20/20 vision viewer) DOF zone of 6.7" at f/5.6


...the shooting aperture needs to be 1.6X larger on APS-C for the shorter FL lens to have 'same DOF' as using 1.6X longer FL on FF.

I would show the difference in background blur via a graph, but that web site doesn't seem to be working, unfortunately

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George ­ Zip
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Sep 05, 2017 23:32 as a reply to SkipD's post |  #4

1) no to 35mm film cameras

2) what I mean is..... 80mm -135 is what I like to shoot portraits and head shots with, and will I get the same look with the 7D and a 50mm for eg

Lemme explain further.

I have a 5d4 and a 7D2. I have been contracted to shoot a number of weddings. I am drfiting out of sports photography.

I need a backup body because of the nature of the work. I am trying to figure out the best way to use the 7d2 and a secondary camera to avoid changing lenses.

I have the following lenses: 16-26 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, 35 1.4. 50 1.4. 85 1.8, 100 2.0, and 100mm 2.0. I also have the 100-400 that I will not use.

So I am just thinking the best way to ustilise the 7d2 and a second body. My thinking was to leave the 35mm/50mm on it and use those lenses on most of the time.

That's why I asked.




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Archibald
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Sep 05, 2017 23:41 |  #5

George Zip wrote in post #18445610 (external link)
1) no to 35mm film cameras

2) what I mean is..... 80mm -135 is what I like to shoot portraits and head shots with, and will I get the same look with the 7D and a 50mm for eg

Lemme explain further.

I have a 5d4 and a 7D2. I have been contracted to shoot a number of weddings. I am drfiting out of sports photography.

I need a backup body because of the nature of the work. I am trying to figure out the best way to use the 7d2 and a secondary camera to avoid changing lenses.

I have the following lenses: 16-26 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, 35 1.4. 50 1.4. 85 1.8, 100 2.0, and 100mm 2.0. I also have the 100-400 that I will not use.

So I am just thinking the best way to ustilise the 7d2 and a second body. My thinking was to leave the 35mm/50mm on it and use those lenses on most of the time.

That's why I asked.

I agree with SkipD's post.

You have FF and crop, and therefore need to understand how focal lengths work across those formats.

To get about the same effect as an 85mm on FF, you need about 50mm on the crop.

To get about the same DOF, open up one stop on the crop. So if you are shooting f/5.6 on the FF, shoot f/4 on the crop. If you happen to be shooting at f/1.8 on the FF, good luck shooting with an equivalent aperture on the crop.


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SkipD
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Post has been edited 15 days ago by SkipD.
Sep 05, 2017 23:50 |  #6

George Zip wrote in post #18445610 (external link)
1) no to 35mm film cameras

2) what I mean is..... 80mm -135 is what I like to shoot portraits and head shots with, and will I get the same look with the 7D and a 50mm for eg

Lemme explain further.

I have a 5d4 and a 7D2. I have been contracted to shoot a number of weddings. I am drfiting out of sports photography.

I need a backup body because of the nature of the work. I am trying to figure out the best way to use the 7d2 and a secondary camera to avoid changing lenses.

I have the following lenses: 16-26 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, 35 1.4. 50 1.4. 85 1.8, 100 2.0, and 100mm 2.0. I also have the 100-400 that I will not use.

So I am just thinking the best way to ustilise the 7d2 and a second body. My thinking was to leave the 35mm/50mm on it and use those lenses on most of the time.

That's why I asked.

I use my 24-70 far more on my 7D (my only DSLR) than either my 16-35 or my 70-200 (these three lenses are all I have for the 7D). You could probably leave a 24-70 on your 7DII for most of your work.


Skip Douglas
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George ­ Zip
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Sep 05, 2017 23:59 |  #7

SkipD wrote in post #18445618 (external link)
I use my 24-70 far more on my 7D (my only DSLR) than either my 16-35 or my 70-200 (these three lenses are all I have for the 7D). You could probably leave a 24-70 on your 7DII for most of your work.

I am leaning that way.... the 24-70 on the 7d for general purpose, and juggling the other lenses on the 5d4.

I love the 24-70 2.8, but its more a general purpose lens than anything else.




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CheshireCat
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Post has been edited 15 days ago by CheshireCat.
Sep 06, 2017 00:05 |  #8

George Zip wrote in post #18445589 (external link)
On a crop camera the 50mm will equal 80mm. Does this also mean you will get the same focal length qualities of an 80 on a full frame camera? So what I am asking is do you get similar qualities using a 50mm 1.4 on a crop sensor as you would using the 85mm on a full frame? I know there will be 5mm to consider and the DOF will be a bit different but overall will it be in the ballpark??

Short answer is yes: it will be in the ballpark.

Long answer is:
- Field of view will be equivalent to 50x1.6=80.
- Depth of field will be equivalent to an 80mm lens stopped down +1.3 stops.

For example: If you shoot a 50 @ f/1.2 on crop, you get an almost identical photo as a 80mm @ f/2 on full frame.
However, the full frame shot will usually have higher image quality because of the smaller aperture and longer FL minimizing optical aberrations.


1Dx, 5D2 and some lenses

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George ­ Zip
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Sep 06, 2017 00:08 |  #9

CheshireCat wrote in post #18445624 (external link)
Short answer is yes: it will be in the ballpark.

Long answer is:
- Field of view will be equivalent to 50x1.6=80.
- Depth of field will be equivalent to an 80mm lens stopped down +1.3 stops.

For example: If you shoot a 50 @ f/1.2 on crop, you get an almost identical photo as a 80mm @ f/2 on full frame.
However, the full frame shot will usually have higher image quality because of the smaller aperture and longer FL minimizing optical aberrations.

Thanks for that.




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Bassat
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Sep 06, 2017 01:17 |  #10

George Zip wrote in post #18445610 (external link)
1) no to 35mm film cameras

2) what I mean is..... 80mm -135 is what I like to shoot portraits and head shots with, and will I get the same look with the 7D and a 50mm for eg

Lemme explain further.

I have a 5d4 and a 7D2. I have been contracted to shoot a number of weddings. I am drfiting out of sports photography.

I need a backup body because of the nature of the work. I am trying to figure out the best way to use the 7d2 and a secondary camera to avoid changing lenses.

I have the following lenses: 16-26 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 70 - 200 2.8, 35 1.4. 50 1.4. 85 1.8, 100 2.0, and 100mm 2.0. I also have the 100-400 that I will not use.

So I am just thinking the best way to ustilise the 7d2 and a second body. My thinking was to leave the 35mm/50mm on it and use those lenses on most of the time.

That's why I asked.

George, I notice we have quite similar gear: FF, apsc, nice collection of zooms and primes. When I run into a question like this, I assemble gear and do the test-shoot myself. It is easy to mess with a variety of combinations when not under the gun for results.

About the only time I take two bodies anymore is to large family gatherings. The 6D gets wide-angle and fast primes, so a bit of lens switching. The 80D gets the 24-105, and little to no lens changes.

I have a 50mm. I don't use it much on either body, but it gets way more time on the crop than on the full frame.

BTW, nice to see you flying, again. Tell Ted I said, "Hi!"


Tom

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George ­ Zip
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Sep 06, 2017 01:46 |  #11

Bassat wrote in post #18445657 (external link)
BTW, nice to see you flying, again. Tell Ted I said, "Hi!"

It was a tough road traveled.... but it was worth it




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George ­ Zip
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Sep 06, 2017 04:25 |  #12

I did a very non scientific experiment.

I tried the 35 1.4 @ 1.4 and framed up two paint cans with some garden greenery behind it. I got the cans pretty much the same in the frame.... I gotta say, I'm hard pressed to see the difference.




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John ­ from ­ PA
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Post has been edited 15 days ago by John from PA.
Sep 06, 2017 05:08 |  #13

The OP may want to "play" with the Depth of Field tool at https://dofsimulator.n​et/en/ (external link). It shows in visual terms the change in depth of field as you switch between sensor types. It also shows the "field of view".

Another tool is at https://www.learn.usa.​canon.com ...tors/fov-comparator.shtml (external link).




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Bassat
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Sep 06, 2017 05:11 |  #14

George Zip wrote in post #18445706 (external link)
I did a very non scientific experiment.

I tried the 35 1.4 @ 1.4 and framed up two paint cans with some garden greenery behind it. I got the cans pretty much the same in the frame.... I gotta say, I'm hard pressed to see the difference.

Difference? Between the 35 1.4 @ 1.4 and what? On which body? I am missing something here.


Tom

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George ­ Zip
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Sep 06, 2017 05:15 |  #15

Bassat wrote in post #18445720 (external link)
Difference? Between the 35 1.4 @ 1.4 and what? On which body? I am missing something here.

Sorry... The 35 at 1.4 on both the 7d2 and 5d4 and framing the subject at pretty much the same size In both photos. I found the images very very similar. close enough for rock and roll.




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