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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 12 Sep 2017 (Tuesday) 20:03
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"Dear Canon" article

 
RDKirk
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Sep 13, 2017 14:42 |  #16

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18451338 (external link)
Sure, no doubt, any time you can clear positive funds by moving from old to new, it is a good thing.

After the interesting release of the 6DII, it will be very telling about the 7DIV, 5DV and 1D whatever that should be announced over the next year or so, I suspect. It is just hard to see where Canon could wow us, vs just providing evolutionary products. Sony keeps trying new things though, but I am not a Sony fan. I have seen them try many things in the past, then abandon them, or just have products simply just fail with poor customer service. I have written them off as a consumer, but not as a shareholder.

When Canon's F-1 first challenged Nikon for the slot of the "professional's professional camera," (particularly the photojournalist's camera), most were wielding Nikon F2 and weren't sure Canon was really serious.

Through the 70s and 80s, some other manufacturers dabbled with their own versions of cameras designed to compete with the Nikon F2--the cute lil Olympus OM-1, the Minolta XK-E, the Pentax LX, and the Topcon Super D--that I recall offhand (having lusted for all of them at one time or another, owning the Topcon). Only Canon also took the step of providing professional service as well. I remember in 1978 strolling in to a Canon regional office with my new F-1 with an MF motor drive with an idea for a modification to the drive. The technician merely grinned and hustled into a back room, returning a short while later with my modification made...no charge.

It took, however, until the late 80s before the professional market as a whole really believed Canon was in it to win it, and that was after they had dropped the FD mount (curses!...at the time) and swept away Minolta's 3-year autofocus lead with the far-sighted all-electric EF mount.

And when I finally resolved to let go of my FD equipment, I looked over at Nikon...and was confused by their hodgepodge efforts at trying to gradually transition the F-mount from mechanically manual to electrically automatic. So I grudgingly admitted that Canon's "big bang" transition to the EF mount was smart after all.

And that is something Canon can arguably do again. Arguably, Canon can sit back and tinker in the background with their own version of a professional mirrorless system that will knock everyone off the fence again.

I dunno if that's what they're doing or not. It seems more to me that they're diddling around protecting their video cameras, or as a company much larger than just DSLRs, they're happy with other Canon divisions.




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TeamSpeed
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Post has been edited 2 months ago by TeamSpeed.
Sep 13, 2017 20:36 |  #17

I have to think that Canon is busy creating higher and higher resolution sensors right now, due to their issuing of VS II of some of the largest staples of lenses. The 6D2 got a boost, the 5D4 over the 5D3, etc. I suspect that the next versions of the APS-C and FF offerings will again have their resolutions increased slightly (10-20%) over the predecessors. I am not sure that will go over as well as they are hoping though, because usually these resolution increases cause people to have to invest in even better laptop/desktop hardware just to process their images. There is a breaking point.

Will there be an increase in DR? Probably a tiny bit.
Will there be even better high ISO? Probably a little, but we might already be near the "its good enough" limits.
Can AF be better? Yes, for some situations.
Will Canon introduce an analog ISO 50 or even 25? Probably not, but that would be nice.
Will Canon introduce digital features like focus stacking, focus peaking, etc? Yes most likely.
Will Canon introduce higher resolution versions of what we have now? Absolutely.

What other things could they do that we would consider innovative at this point?


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RDKirk
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Sep 13, 2017 20:40 |  #18

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18451651 (external link)
I have to think that Canon is busy creating higher and higher resolution sensors right now, due to their issuing of VS II of some of the largest staples of lenses. The 6D2 got a boost, the 5D4 over the 5D3, etc. I suspect that the next versions of the APS-C and FF offerings will again have their resolutions increased slightly (10-20%) over the predecessors. I am not sure that will go over as well as they are hoping though, because usually these resolution increases cause people to have to invest in even better laptop/desktop hardware just to process their images. There is a breaking point.

Will there be an increase in DR? Probably a tiny bit.
Will there be even better high ISO? Probably a little, but we might already be near the "its good enough" limits.
Can AF be better? Yes, for some situations.
Will Canon introduce an analog ISO 50 or even 25? Probably not, but that would be nice.
Will Canon introduce digital features like focus stacking, focus peaking, etc? Yes most likely.
Will Canon introduce higher resolution versions of what we have now? Absolutely.

What other things could they do that we would consider innovative at this point?

At some point Canon will begin to phase out DSLRs for a fully mirrorless line. They may do it as a Big Bang the way they went to the EF mount.




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davesrose
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Sep 13, 2017 21:37 as a reply to RDKirk's post |  #19

But the EF mount was back when SLRs held a sizable market for cameras. SLRs have steadily declined in both factor for camera, and camera as an independent digital device. Canon still does have innovations (recently Nano-USM and DPAF). It's just that they're not the pioneer for still image quality. Canon seems poised to be well diversified: having a cinema line, printing, and optics. If they do unveil a robust FF mirrorless, it still won't be a make or break deal for them anymore.


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RDKirk
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Sep 13, 2017 22:37 |  #20

davesrose wrote in post #18451700 (external link)
But the EF mount was back when SLRs held a sizable market for cameras. SLRs have steadily declined in both factor for camera, and camera as an independent digital device. Canon still does have innovations (recently Nano-USM and DPAF). It's just that they're not the pioneer for still image quality. Canon seems poised to be well diversified: having a cinema line, printing, and optics. If they do unveil a robust FF mirrorless, it still won't be a make or break deal for them anymore.

It won't be make-or-break for Canon, no. That's why they can lollygag about putting out a mirrorless professional camera until they're good and ready with confidence that they can afford to wait.

A Canon official has already said as much: "We are planning and will do it when we can do it right." Everyone else has to wonder what Canon's idea of "right" for a professional mirrorless camera might be.




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Nick5
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Sep 22, 2017 08:40 |  #21

When I was shooting a pair of 7D's I wanted to buy a 5D Mark II.

One day at my local shop I met the Canon Tech Rep. As we were shooting the breeze. he asked if I had any full frame bodies. As I told I was in the market, I would be all in if a new 5D Mark III would incorporate my three needs.

Improved 7D Body Grip, not external grip. The chunkier design compared to rounded of the Mark II.
AF system of the 7D
View Finder Grid Display.

Someone was listening to our conversation.
Now I have 2 5D Mark III's
True Story.

With the release of the 5D Mark III


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MalVeauX
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Sep 22, 2017 08:47 |  #22

The article is doing what it was designed to do. Lure people to their website, the ads roll, they click around. Marketing. This sort of article comes up every so often anyways and it's always this style. Some website article, not just a random open letter on a forum, but on a website specifically, then drawing in the people around so that it can be shared, spread, etc, and be a hot topic for a second. A second. The writer then gets to tell the publisher that they're successful and can bring in the hits. The publisher gets to have a small increase in traffic. Ads roll.

Where's Canon's innovation?

Well, where's Sony/Fuji/Nikon at the NFL games?

You don't have to have the best tech. You just have to be the right tool for the job at the time.

Very best,


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rantercsr
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Sep 22, 2017 09:09 |  #23

MalVeauX wrote in post #18457772 (external link)
The article is doing what it was designed to do.

Where's Canon's innovation?

Well, where's Sony/Fuji/Nikon at the NFL games?

You don't have to have the best tech. You just have to be the right tool for the job at the time.

Very best,

But how long till the new tech becomes the better tool for those jobs?
Yes the articlr is what it is .. but ,


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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by MalVeauX.
Sep 22, 2017 09:16 |  #24

rantercsr wrote in post #18457789 (external link)
But how long till the new tech becomes the better tool for those jobs?
Yes the articlr is what it is .. but ,

Who cares how long it takes? If you want the best tool, get the best tool right? This article seems to be overly infatuated with Canon like an ex or something with love lost and scorn. Like they were all in and got dumped. These are tools. If Canon isn't producing what's needed and someone else is, why not migrate? We all see it every few months to few years where someone is moving to one system or another for whatever features. Usually because of the bodies and tech. Most of the ones, just from my imperfect memory, going back to Canon or stick to Canon, seems to be for their big glass. We can't take pure tech as a reason to use the tool. You have to actually need that tech and use it for it to matter beyond it being a sticker on a bumper. I'm not countering your point, just pointing out how the article really is just whining about stuff and revealing the writer more than actually arguing to the technology.

We have plenty of threads about Canon's lack of high quality video on their main bodies compared to others, their lack of DR on their newest sensors compared to Sony, etc. Canon clearly has been lagging in some departments for a long time. But, unless you need those specific things, then what are you losing? That's why I brought up the NFL. Just look at the sidelines. Those guys do it for a living, and it's an ocean of big whites for the most part. It's not always about just the body tech.

Very best,


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gjl711
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Sep 22, 2017 09:45 |  #25

MalVeauX wrote in post #18457772 (external link)
...Well, where's Sony/Fuji/Nikon at the NFL games?

You don't have to have the best tech. You just have to be the right tool for the job at the time.

Very best,

Though Canon still dominates I think, the sea of whit lenses has been diluted over the last few years. These days the mix looks closer to 50/50. Lots of black lenses as well.


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kf095
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by kf095. 5 edits done in total.
Sep 22, 2017 10:10 |  #26

IMO... G.A.S. wining on PP, this is what it is. "Oh, look what Sony has, tiny FF with tiny televisor, me want the same with Canon badge".

In reality where I'm almost all I see is Canon DSLRs. From Rebels to 1 series. On regular folks at local events or on travel and with professionals, including my daughter, who currently works as photographer and it pays for living and fun bills. For many of us most effective way to get simply great picture is to have simple tool, like iPhone, or DSLR. Personally, I can't stand most of mirrorless with advanced futures and EVF. Too much crap load in menus and they are not done by people who follows photographers, but more like computer geeks.
This is why I choose simple Leica mirrorless and Canon DSLR over SoFuOly. I even have tiny 16MP Canon P&S for now with optical viewfinder. It is so much better comparing flickering EVF, IMO.

If it works, do not change it, but make sure you are supporting it. Canon Canada has biggest service department and huge building. Pro and advanced amateurs are using it as advantage.

And if PP hipster doesn't know, Canon is innovative with cine DSLRs. I'm not sure is Sony has any bussines in cine cameras.


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davesrose
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Sep 22, 2017 10:39 as a reply to kf095's post |  #27

Sony was one of the first companies to develop a digital cinema camera. Some of the earliest HD movies (Once Upon a Time in Mexico, Spy Kids, Attack of the Clones) were shot on the Sony HDW-F900. Now there's a myriad of companies producing cinema cameras: Arri, Blackmagic, Canon, Panavision, Red, and Sony all have established cinema recording systems.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
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RPCrowe
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Sep 22, 2017 11:18 |  #28

I wonder what marvelous still camera Canon (or Nikon or Fuji, et.) could have produced if they did not need to compete as a dual purpose still and video rig. If they put all of their efforts into producing the best still camera possible...

I'll bet that the auto focus would be wonderful, the dynamic range impossible to believe, the native ISO starting with 25 and ending at God know's where. Audio recording linked with each to record data about the shot (not just EXIF and geo tag data but who, what and where data also).

Finally the camera would include a mini expresso maker for those moments when the photographer needs a boost in energy:-D...


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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Sep 22, 2017 11:26 |  #29

RPCrowe wrote in post #18457871 (external link)
Audio recording linked with each to record data about the shot (not just EXIF and geo tag data but who, what and where data also).

Fuji already have that as an option, up to 30secs.


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RDKirk
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Sep 22, 2017 11:57 |  #30

RPCrowe wrote in post #18457871 (external link)
I wonder what marvelous still camera Canon (or Nikon or Fuji, et.) could have produced if they did not need to compete as a dual purpose still and video rig. If they put all of their efforts into producing the best still camera possible...

They're not putting very much effort into it. That's the gripe of a whole lot of people. Video comes with Live View. In fact, 40D cameras (which had Live View but not video) were hacked to produce video...it was already there in the Live View circuitry.




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"Dear Canon" article
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