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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 15 Sep 2017 (Friday) 11:24
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Rangefinder digitals, options?

 
MalVeauX
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Sep 16, 2017 13:50 |  #31

Charlie wrote in post #18453675 (external link)
you've gotta consider equivalency. if you dont like 40 stm on FF, you certainly wont be satisfied with any of the fuji's you mention, save the 21 f1.4.

40 stm on FF is really a killer combo, but I can understand why you dont like it.

there is no magical small 35mm F2 on full frame/23mm f1.4 on crop, and it looks like that's your wish.

Only way you get that:

35 summicron
35 lux
35 nokton
35 ultron
23 f1.4 xf

Yea, it wasn't the focal length of the 40 STM that I didn't like. I just didn't like the F2.8 and I didn't like the slow AF it has coupled with not good manual focus. Otherwise, 40mm doesn't bother me FOV wise with that sensor size (full frame). Otherwise, loved the lens, kept it for years. But I preferred the 35 F2 IS in every way. The pancake really doesn't save space when the dSLR is huge like the 5D anyways.

F1.4 really is just a pipe dream. I want it small so I know F1.4 won't come with that.

F2 however can be made with a pancake design. 23mm on APS-C is close enough to 35mm FOV on full frame, and its F2 so it pretty much ticks the box for the lens properties I'm looking for. As long as it's actually ok for manual focus.

Very best,


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EverydayGetaway
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Sep 16, 2017 13:54 |  #32

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453669 (external link)
Hrm,

I keep coming back to Fuji after looking some more. Watched some YouTube content.

Trying to be realistic, that this is not to replace my Canon system, but simply to be a nice little beater camera that I don't have to think about much with but also that is going to be inconspicuous, not being a big "dSLR" in someone's face, but rather just a smaller camera that folk tend to truly ignore. Makes candid family stuff a little more candid feeling. My EOS-M already does that, compared to me hulking around my 1Ds & 135L. It just gets old having to stand 20 feet away and they know I'm pointing a big kit at them, versus when my wee M is out and no one cares. Weird psychology.

Right now, just looking at KEH (love used stuff there):

Fuji X100S (23mm F2) $550
Fuji XPRO1 (no lens) $490
Fuji X-E2 (no lens) $370

Fuji 18mm F2 $350 - This could be nice.
Fuji 27mm F2.8 $350 - Don't like the idea of F2.8, didn't like the 40 F2.8 STM on a full frame either.
Fuji 23mm F2 WR $450 - I like it, but it's a big lens, I'd rather have a pancake.
Rokinon 21mm F1.4 $380 - This would be great, but, it's a huge lens and I'd rather have a pancake compared to 1 more stop of aperture.

I like the idea of the PRO1 or E2, since I can then fiddle with legacy glass and a basic pancake Fuji lens. But, I don't like the price of a camera + lens right now, even used, as that's at least $700 basically. Too much for the intended purpose of this camera, that for me is more of a system price, and I'm not looking to have a 2nd system.

Then again there's the M5 from Canon, but it's like $700~800. Not interested in buying a Canon APS-C at all. Not sure about Canon's EVF compared to others who have been in the game of EVF's longer too. But that price excludes it pretty much.

I may have just talked myself into trying an X100S?

Any X100 shooters that can relate and comment why they also have 1 or 2 other Fuji bodies? Especially knowing my context (day to day use, family cam with the girls, travel and out at the beach, just whenever we're doing whatever, around the house; good for manual focus, good for dim lighting in a house, etc).

Very best,

If you read my blog post, your story is sounding very reminiscent of how mine began... be careful :lol:

I would highly recommend looking around on Fred Miranda rather than KEH. KEH is pretty good, but they're markups are a lot higher than the stuff you can find on FM or other forums. I see X100S' for under $450 all the time, X-Pro1's for around $300 and X-E2's for around the same very often. I even got my X-T1 for $350 with the OE battery grip on FM.

The 18mm is one of my favorite 2 lenses, the 35/1.4 being the other (I wrote a blog post about the 18mm as well).
The 27mm as I said above is fantastic. Images from it were always sharp and full of detail, it's also tiny, focuses fast and doesn't flare easily, I used mine without a hood.
The 23mm f2 and Rokinon 21mm are definitely not what I would call "big" lenses, but they are a bit bigger than the others. The 23mm is just long, it's still tiny. The 21mm is about the same size as the XF 18-55mm, which is a little smaller than the Canon equivalent, so definitely not "big".

My bet is that you could find an X-Pro1 + XF 18mm for under $500 pretty easily if you shop around a bit. If you'd like I'd be happy to assist ;)

I will add (since you asked) that the X100S does seem a perfect solution for you. I didn't think I wanted an X100, I only really got one because I didn't really need my X-E2 anymore and I found a guy locally who was looking to trade his X100T for exactly what I had (an X-E2 with 27mm pancake). After trading I realized how much I loved my X100T though. It offers something above what any ILC offers.

The X100 cameras are truly small and very light. The 23/2 is a great little lens, smooth bokeh and pretty decently sharp (other than when near MFD, up close it gets fairly soft in my experience, especially wide open). The biggest advantage of it (aside from the OVF, which I love) is the leaf shutter though. The leaf shutter is nearly silent and makes flash much more useful (including the one built into the body).

I used to scoff at people when they called it their ideal desert island camera... but these days it sees about the same amount of use as my X-Pro2 just because it's always with me... I'm actually giving serious thought to trading up for the X100F, mainly for the focus joystick and use of the same batteries as my X-Pro2.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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EverydayGetaway
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Sep 16, 2017 13:56 |  #33

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453688 (external link)
Yea, it wasn't the focal length of the 40 STM that I didn't like. I just didn't like the F2.8 and I didn't like the slow AF it has coupled with not good manual focus. Otherwise, 40mm doesn't bother me FOV wise with that sensor size (full frame). Otherwise, loved the lens, kept it for years. But I preferred the 35 F2 IS in every way. The pancake really doesn't save space when the dSLR is huge like the 5D anyways.

F1.4 really is just a pipe dream. I want it small so I know F1.4 won't come with that.

F2 however can be made with a pancake design. 23mm on APS-C is close enough to 35mm FOV on full frame, and its F2 so it pretty much ticks the box for the lens properties I'm looking for. As long as it's actually ok for manual focus.

Very best,

Honestly, the 35/1.4 is only about 1.5x longer than the 18/2 and it uses the same caps and hood. That's why those are my favorite 2 lenses. They're always my 2 lens kit. I can keep one on the body with it's hood on and the other in my pocket with just the caps on it, then do a quick swap over of the caps and hood when I need a lens change, works great (and yes, either lens fits very comfortably in my pocket, though if your jeans are tight the 35mm might feel a bit strange :lol: ).


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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MalVeauX
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Post edited 7 months ago by MalVeauX.
     
Sep 16, 2017 14:03 |  #34

The more I read and watch stuff, the X100S seems like the simple fun camera I'm looking for. Cheap too.

I know if I get something with the ability to change lenses, I'll want to fiddle with other glass, but I'm truly trying to downsize. I've sold a lot this year finally going down to 4 bodies from 9. Would love to go down to 4 bodies total. I'll always keep a rugged 1D around because I kayak-bird a lot, so my 1Ds II + 300 F4L IS is my goto in the boat. I like the 5Dc for portrait and things that I do a lot of with my daughter and family, and like the glass with it, happy with the 35 F2 IS, 17-40L and 135L there. T4i I'm happy with for astro, because I just need that tier sensor for ISO 800 & ISO 1600 since that's the highest I go (I use trackers, so I don't need high ISO performance); APS-C is a large sensor in the astro world to help control FOV on long scopes that I use. So it does the job there and the swivel screen is very handy though I typically am tethered when I do it. That leaves the EOS-M, which I'm just not happy with these days. I used to like it a lot. But now I'm just constantly tired of it not being able to do what I want it to do, so I just use my 5D instead. Which is fine. I love the 5D. But there are many times I'm out with my girls and just want a small camera that everyone else ignores. Don't want to always be "that guy with a big camera" around.

I'll have to take a peak over at FM. See if any X100S's are dangling around.

Very best,


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Charlie
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Sep 16, 2017 14:23 |  #35

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453688 (external link)
Yea, it wasn't the focal length of the 40 STM that I didn't like. I just didn't like the F2.8 and I didn't like the slow AF it has coupled with not good manual focus. Otherwise, 40mm doesn't bother me FOV wise with that sensor size (full frame). Otherwise, loved the lens, kept it for years. But I preferred the 35 F2 IS in every way. The pancake really doesn't save space when the dSLR is huge like the 5D anyways.

F1.4 really is just a pipe dream. I want it small so I know F1.4 won't come with that.

F2 however can be made with a pancake design. 23mm on APS-C is close enough to 35mm FOV on full frame, and its F2 so it pretty much ticks the box for the lens properties I'm looking for. As long as it's actually ok for manual focus.

Very best,

As far as I know, xf 18 f2 is a pancake, x100's, Fe 35 f2.8 by Sony or Rokinon both AF.

I've been looking for the magic bullet myself, even if I have the 35f2.8 I do want faster at times. I happen to have the TAP adapter, so the small 35f1.4 M mounts work, but I ended up getting the Ultron for a few reasons. It's light enough, small enough, f1.7 FF is enough, good optics. Another positive is that it's an extremely cool looking lens.

The other contender was the summilux-M for 3K. Just couldn't stomach that at this point, considering it's no better optically and similar in size.

I still do want it because it holds value really well, and well, it's Leica, I need to try it.


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MalVeauX
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Sep 16, 2017 14:29 |  #36

Yea, the 18mm F2 is the only pancake lens that really is standing out to me in the line up for the cost. I know I'd love that 2X F1.4, but, I want a pancake. I want it to be small. The moment the lens is 1.5 or 2 inches long, I might as well have any camera in my hands because the entire device just took up a lot more volume in general and it's just more attention. If size were not part of the reason I'm looking for a compact digital, I'd just use my 5D and my 35mm F2 IS which I already enjoy and use all the time. I just want to go smaller than that, and not just a little. My EOSM + pancake seems right, a little bigger would be ok, but only a wee little bit.

If I had to get one of the bodies and buy a lens, it probably would be the 18mm F2. I do no have any desire to get an F2.8 pancake again. I've had two F2.8 pancakes and I just don't like F2.8 on a fixed focal length when F2 is an option too.

As much as I like the idea of a Leica, it's really the monochrome I'd want. I don't care about the color sensor ones.

Then again, I know you can buy Fuji's with debayered sensors that are effectively monochrome (and truly monochrome).

I already shoot a monochrome camera for some of my work, and mono is just great for the significantly improved sensitivity. But I don't want to pay thousands for that for snapshots.

Very best,


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Talley
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Post edited 7 months ago by Talley.
     
Sep 16, 2017 14:34 |  #37

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453669 (external link)
Hrm,

I keep coming back to Fuji after looking some more. Watched some YouTube content.

Trying to be realistic, that this is not to replace my Canon system, but simply to be a nice little beater camera that I don't have to think about much with but also that is going to be inconspicuous, not being a big "dSLR" in someone's face, but rather just a smaller camera that folk tend to truly ignore. Makes candid family stuff a little more candid feeling. My EOS-M already does that, compared to me hulking around my 1Ds & 135L. It just gets old having to stand 20 feet away and they know I'm pointing a big kit at them, versus when my wee M is out and no one cares. Weird psychology.

Right now, just looking at KEH (love used stuff there):

Fuji X100S (23mm F2) $550
Fuji XPRO1 (no lens) $490
Fuji X-E2 (no lens) $370

Fuji 18mm F2 $350 - This could be nice.
Fuji 27mm F2.8 $350 - Don't like the idea of F2.8, didn't like the 40 F2.8 STM on a full frame either.
Fuji 23mm F2 WR $450 - I like it, but it's a big lens, I'd rather have a pancake.
Rokinon 21mm F1.4 $380 - This would be great, but, it's a huge lens and I'd rather have a pancake compared to 1 more stop of aperture.

I like the idea of the PRO1 or E2, since I can then fiddle with legacy glass and a basic pancake Fuji lens. But, I don't like the price of a camera + lens right now, even used, as that's at least $700 basically. Too much for the intended purpose of this camera, that for me is more of a system price, and I'm not looking to have a 2nd system.

Then again there's the M5 from Canon, but it's like $700~800. Not interested in buying a Canon APS-C at all. Not sure about Canon's EVF compared to others who have been in the game of EVF's longer too. But that price excludes it pretty much.

I may have just talked myself into trying an X100S?

Any X100 shooters that can relate and comment why they also have 1 or 2 other Fuji bodies? Especially knowing my context (day to day use, family cam with the girls, travel and out at the beach, just whenever we're doing whatever, around the house; good for manual focus, good for dim lighting in a house, etc).

Very best,

XPRO1
27 2.8 used - 225ish

many other glass available at low cost. I got my 35 1.4 for 300 in perfect condition. Got my 56 1.2 for 575 and got my 18/2 for 280. I don't see how you can keep saying the glass is expensive. The used market goes in waves according to fuji's annual sales. Once a year Fuji does annual sales where they drop 200 off the price of lens literally and make the lens very inexpensive. Rokion 12mm f2 can be found for 250 and that is an amazing wide angle.

The 23/2 is bundled with the XE3 for only 250 more. I should switch my pre-order to the xe3 w/ the 23/2 and sell that to you.


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Talley
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Sep 16, 2017 14:47 |  #38

the 18/2 and 35 1.4 are both so small and light weight the camera feels like a toy. Sure they are both not a pancake like the EFM 22/2 but compared to anything full frame the camera is tiny small. It's why I own both. I really want the 27 too but just feel the 2.8 to be limiting. The 35 is one heck of a lens and many complain about it's performance but I love it.


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EverydayGetaway
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Sep 16, 2017 14:48 |  #39

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453711 (external link)
Yea, the 18mm F2 is the only pancake lens that really is standing out to me in the line up for the cost. I know I'd love that 2X F1.4, but, I want a pancake. I want it to be small. The moment the lens is 1.5 or 2 inches long, I might as well have any camera in my hands because the entire device just took up a lot more volume in general and it's just more attention. If size were not part of the reason I'm looking for a compact digital, I'd just use my 5D and my 35mm F2 IS which I already enjoy and use all the time. I just want to go smaller than that, and not just a little. My EOSM + pancake seems right, a little bigger would be ok, but only a wee little bit.

If I had to get one of the bodies and buy a lens, it probably would be the 18mm F2. I do no have any desire to get an F2.8 pancake again. I've had two F2.8 pancakes and I just don't like F2.8 on a fixed focal length when F2 is an option too.

As much as I like the idea of a Leica, it's really the monochrome I'd want. I don't care about the color sensor ones.

Then again, I know you can buy Fuji's with debayered sensors that are effectively monochrome (and truly monochrome).

I already shoot a monochrome camera for some of my work, and mono is just great for the significantly improved sensitivity. But I don't want to pay thousands for that for snapshots.

Very best,

You're definitely sounding more and more like a prime candidate for an X100. If you could swing it I would say definitely try to opt for the X100T. For me the ERF (electronic range finder) makes it worth the price difference by itself, especially for MF fans, but otherwise the X100S is still a solid camera. Other reasons to consider the X100T are the WiFi (a must have for me, YMMV), much nicer LCD, custom button layouts and the electronic shutter among some others.

Here's a good comparison guide to help you decide which features you need or don't need;

https://www.fujivsfuji​.com/x100t-vs-x100s-vs-x100/ (external link)


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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Charlie
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Sep 16, 2017 15:45 |  #40

MalVeauX wrote in post #18453711 (external link)
Yea, the 18mm F2 is the only pancake lens that really is standing out to me in the line up for the cost. I know I'd love that 2X F1.4, but, I want a pancake. I want it to be small. The moment the lens is 1.5 or 2 inches long, I might as well have any camera in my hands because the entire device just took up a lot more volume in general and it's just more attention. If size were not part of the reason I'm looking for a compact digital, I'd just use my 5D and my 35mm F2 IS which I already enjoy and use all the time. I just want to go smaller than that, and not just a little. My EOSM + pancake seems right, a little bigger would be ok, but only a wee little bit.

If I had to get one of the bodies and buy a lens, it probably would be the 18mm F2. I do no have any desire to get an F2.8 pancake again. I've had two F2.8 pancakes and I just don't like F2.8 on a fixed focal length when F2 is an option too.

As much as I like the idea of a Leica, it's really the monochrome I'd want. I don't care about the color sensor ones.

Then again, I know you can buy Fuji's with debayered sensors that are effectively monochrome (and truly monochrome).

I already shoot a monochrome camera for some of my work, and mono is just great for the significantly improved sensitivity. But I don't want to pay thousands for that for snapshots.

Very best,

You may try another approach, look into bags that will carry your point and shoot.

What can you fit in it?

I know it may seem odd, but it may give you some leeway.

I'm extremely picky in how I carry a small setup. If I'm fighting or requires two hands too many zippers, I'm simply not bothering with it. I take my camera everywhere, trips to chick fil a, movie theaters, dinner, ect, and I'm juggling my children, so it's important that the camera is completely out of the way or might as well leave it at home.

there are lots of very small mirrorless bags, and you should check out if they work for you, then figure what camera combos would fit in it. If a bag accommodates a 2x f1.4, then it makes little difference if your lens is a pancake or not. That said, my pancake combo has been my steady combo for a few years now, not because I love a slowish lens, but because it's super practical. I've only recently discovered the think tank digital holster 5....... really wish I had known about it earlier. I have 2 other digital holsters by think tank, not sure how I missed this one!


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Sep 16, 2017 15:47 |  #41

shoulder strap only and let that camera smack anything you brush up against... if the camera can't survive it's worthless lol


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MalVeauX
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Sep 16, 2017 16:15 |  #42

Talley wrote in post #18453766 (external link)
shoulder strap only and let that camera smack anything you brush up against... if the camera can't survive it's worthless lol

This is basically what I do.

Again I kayak with a camera and lens. I don't care about these things, they're tools, I'll get another if it busts for good. I find them to be very durable frankly. My EOS-M has hit concrete several times. That bugger is tough, I'll give it that.

But I would not bother with a bag. That defeats a small camera for me. I have a big bag for my big stuff. I'm wanting to just have a wee camera that can be a small rifle-sling strap and knock into doors and bump into chairs. Don't care. This is why I don't want pricey stuff for a walk about camera.

+++++++++

I think I'll just watch for some sales and used ads and see what comes up. I'm in no rush. Just see what comes up as a best deal first and go that direction. Ultimately I think I'd rather just keep it simple with a $500ish X100S + 23mm F2 and call it a day. I could get that right now with a warranty even when used. Or I could wait a bit, get the other bodies and slowly add a lens here and there as sales and ads permit. But then again, I'm not too terribly interested in even having more than one lens. I have zero interest in telephoto on this. I only like wider fast lenses. Too wide and you lose some of the character of a faster lens that I'd like to have the ability to have sometimes. The 18 through 23mm range on APS-C is good natural FOV to me. My other systems cover 17mm through 600mm on 35mm full frame. For this, I'm just happy with a single natural FOV. And F2 is a great speed to be stuck at for it.

Very best,


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Charlie
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Sep 16, 2017 16:16 |  #43

Talley wrote in post #18453766 (external link)
shoulder strap only and let that camera smack anything you brush up against... if the camera can't survive it's worthless lol

Do you really want to disfigure your children?

You black rapid Talley?


Sony A7rii/A7riii - FE 12-24/4 - FE 24-240 - FE 28/2 - FE 35/2.8 - FE 50/1.8 - FE 85/1.8 - EF 135/1.8 Art - F 600/5.6 - CZ 35-70, 100-300 - Astro Rok 14/2.8, 24/1.4 - Tamron 28-75 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VC

  
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Sep 16, 2017 16:26 |  #44

Charlie wrote in post #18453778 (external link)
Do you really want to disfigure your children?

You black rapid Talley?

RS-7 for years but seldom use it anymore. Use to use it like crazy... talk about kids they are tough... every one of my kids have ran into my camera leaving a bump on their forehead...

...they learn :)

I just fist my camera these days. I find the strap kinda cumbersome anymore. I did however finally pickup a monopod and head for my 200 for my sons baseball. I think and/or hope it'll let me be in the ready to shoot position more often. I'd normally hand hold it and just hold it up to shoot. I'm sure the monopod will make me lazier now.


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MalVeauX
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Sep 16, 2017 16:33 |  #45

Talley wrote in post #18453787 (external link)
RS-7 for years but seldom use it anymore. Use to use it like crazy... talk about kids they are tough... every one of my kids have ran into my camera leaving a bump on their forehead...

...they learn :)

I just fist my camera these days. I find the strap kinda cumbersome anymore. I did however finally pickup a monopod and head for my 200 for my sons baseball. I think and/or hope it'll let me be in the ready to shoot position more often. I'd normally hand hold it and just hold it up to shoot. I'm sure the monopod will make me lazier now.

Nah, the monopod is a big help. I use one with a tilt head for my 300F4LIS and 600mm all the time. Especially when you want to drag the shutter and capture action blur with frozen core bodies. Love that look. Get a lot more stability from the monopod than IS will grant. Especially at longer focal lengths, and especially with weight. I take my monopod everywhere. It telescopes down to wee little thing. It would be awesome for you 200L at a ball game. Especially if you swing to your hip camera for a close range shot while holding your telephoto and stick with your non-dominant hand.

++++++++++

Speaking of how we carry the cameras, for my EOS-M, I use a little belt clip that has a ball head receiving holder and the ball head then bolts into the camera body. It just hangs in the holder. Take it out when I want to use it. I really like it for light weight cameras.

Very best,


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