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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 29 Sep 2017 (Friday) 05:30
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Used Canon Decision: 7D mkII? 1D mkIV? 6D?

 
hyppy
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by hyppy. 2 edits done in total.
Sep 29, 2017 05:30 |  #1

My 1D mkIII is dead, so I've a decision to make. Anyone care to help me make that decision?

I need something quickly as I've another semi-pro assignment planned next week. I'm buying used, and my budget would stretch to a 7D mkII, a 6D, or a high shutter count 1D mkIV.

Here's my thinking so far and choice based on that thought.

I take lots of trail-running snaps: 1D or 7D (focus and fps)
… this usually involves travel and lugging gear up mountains: 7D or 6D (size and weight)
… in wide open landscapes or in close proximity to runners: 1D or 6D (the x1.6 crop of the 7D is a concern)
I like publish on social media asap : 6D (wifi)
I can be away from power for days: 1D or budget for 6D,7D w/battery grip
I'm used to a 1D's controls: 1D
The 1D I can afford has high ~200k shutter count: 7D or 6D (may need to budget for replacement)
I have 1D accessories: 1D
The widest lens I have is only 24mm: 6D (crop worry)
The longest lens I have is only 200mm: 7D (longer 320mm equiv.)

For real world examples of what I tend to shoot, here's my running photo site (external link) and here's my more general flickr (external link).

Which would you go for?




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Bassat
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Sep 29, 2017 08:07 |  #2

hyppy wrote in post #18462630 (external link)
My 1D mkIII is dead, so I've a decision to make. Anyone care to help me make that decision?

I need something quickly as I've another semi-pro assignment planned next week. I'm buying used, and my budget would stretch to a 7D mkII, a 6D, or a high shutter count 1D mkIV.

Here's my thinking so far and choice based on that thought.

I take lots of trail-running snaps: 1D or 7D (focus and fps)
… this usually involves travel and lugging gear up mountains: 7D or 6D (size and weight)
… in wide open landscapes or in close proximity to runners: 1D or 6D (the x1.6 crop of the 7D is a concern)
I like publish on social media asap : 6D (wifi)
I can be away from power for days: 1D or budget for 6D,7D w/battery grip
I'm used to a 1D's controls: 1D
The 1D I can afford has high ~200k shutter count: 7D or 6D (may need to budget for replacement)
I have 1D accessories: 1D
The widest lens I have is only 24mm: 6D (crop worry)
The longest lens I have is only 200mm: 7D (longer 320mm equiv.)

For real world examples of what I tend to shoot, here's my running photo site (external link) and here's my more general flickr (external link).

Which would you go for?

7D2/6D lose their size/weight advantage if you need a grip
7D2 in tight quarters is a issue
6D doesn't come close to the FPS of 7D2/1D4
6D simply doesn't have the AF ability of the 7D2/1D4
6D just isn't rugged enough to be knocked around, if that ever happens
in light as good as your examples, you don't need the 7D2's low light ability

1D4 gets you:
killer battery life
1.3x crop (not FF, not 1.6)
killer AF in the light you will be shooting in

I'd take the 6D off the table. Deciding between the 7D2 & 1D4 is easier. You don't need 1.6x, or -3EV AF. I'd look for a low mileage 1D4. WIFI is available.


Tom

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hyppy
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Sep 29, 2017 08:28 as a reply to Bassat's post |  #3

Thanks for the input, Tom.

I'd look for a low mileage 1D4

Low-mileage within my price range doesn't seem doable. We're talking 175000+, which is more than double my 1D mkIII had done. Would that put you off? It's worrying me!

Maybe I need just to stop kidding myself that my budget will stretch to a worthwhile 1D this time around, and learn to live with the crop?




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Chet
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Sep 29, 2017 08:34 |  #4

Well I am having the same debate in my head with my 1Dmkiii. It's no longer covered by Canon. I would love a 1dmkiv, BUT- It will be discontinued soon as well. Jumping to a 1dx is cost prohibited, so it leaved me with a 7dmkii as the only viable option.

Good luck.


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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by TeamSpeed. 8 edits done in total.
Sep 29, 2017 08:55 |  #5

hyppy wrote in post #18462630 (external link)
My 1D mkIII is dead, so I've a decision to make. Anyone care to help me make that decision?

I need something quickly as I've another semi-pro assignment planned next week. I'm buying used, and my budget would stretch to a 7D mkII, a 6D, or a high shutter count 1D mkIV.

Here's my thinking so far and choice based on that thought.

I take lots of trail-running snaps: 1D or 7D (focus and fps)
… this usually involves travel and lugging gear up mountains: 7D or 6D (size and weight)
… in wide open landscapes or in close proximity to runners: 1D or 6D (the x1.6 crop of the 7D is a concern)
I like publish on social media asap : 6D (wifi)
I can be away from power for days: 1D or budget for 6D,7D w/battery grip
I'm used to a 1D's controls: 1D
The 1D I can afford has high ~200k shutter count: 7D or 6D (may need to budget for replacement)
I have 1D accessories: 1D
The widest lens I have is only 24mm: 6D (crop worry)
The longest lens I have is only 200mm: 7D (longer 320mm equiv.)

For real world examples of what I tend to shoot, here's my running photo site (external link) and here's my more general flickr (external link).

Which would you go for?

Just so you are aware, for $40 you can wifi-enable a 7D2 and it behaves similarly to the in-camera Wifi that the 6D would have.

Here are my thoughts:

- 1D4 is great, and if you liked the 1D3, the 1D4 is better in EVERY way. However again you will have weight to deal with, and low light AF isn't the 1D4's forte, I actually know that the 1D3 behaved better having had both, and having had to send in my 1D4 to see what Canon thought about it. The 1D4 has no available wifi option that doesn't add bulk and cost, and no GPS.

- 7D2 has an AF system that nearly rivals the 1D4, and has the burst speed one would want. A single battery won't last as long as a LP-E4, however an LP-E4 is about the size and weight of 3 LP-E6s, so you could just pack extra LP-E6 batteries to get the same longevity with a couple of extra battery changes, but your overall weight of a 7D2 lugging it around is lower than 1D4. Depends whether you want a weight savings almost all the time as you hold the camera vs the heavier weight of the 1D4 at the expense of 2 extra battery changes. The 7D2 can be wifi'd through the Canon mobile app just like the 6D. The 7D2 focuses better in lower light. There isn't that much difference between a 1.3 crop and a 1.6 crop, so the crop factor between the 1D4 and 7D2 probably adds nothing to the comparisons. The 7D2 also has GPS which could be good for what you are shooting, if you want to tag exactly where each runner was during an event.

- 6D isn't as sealed as the other two, so I would be a bit more wary using this in a hiking/trail/wet outdoors environment, it only focuses really great on the center point, it doesn't have a great burst speed, but it does with with dynamic range and high ISO noise over the 7D2 by a bit, within a stop or so. It has wifi integrated. The 6D also has GPS like the 7D2.

For me, it sounds like focus needs, burst speeds, and wifi are your critical items, therefore there would only be one of the 3 that seems to meet those needs.

EDIT: for power on the LP-E6 batteries, I have a great option for you to charge batteries while away from any power source. If you are interested, here is what I picked up and they work great on my last wedding shoot. The panel outputs 3A and seems to charge a battery in a couple of hours. This means on a day with full sun, you should be able to charge 2-3 batteries. I am not sure what exists for the LP-E4.

https://www.amazon.com ...age_o08_s00?ie=UTF8​&psc=1 (external link)
https://www.amazon.com ...age_o00_s00?ie=UTF8​&psc=1 (external link)


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MalVeauX
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by MalVeauX. 3 edits done in total.
Sep 29, 2017 09:03 |  #6

Heya,

From your images on your links, I don't see a need for anything really long. You have plenty of resolution to crop from for posting on media sharing. So I wouldn't worry about reach. Instead, just consider what you need on the wide end.

Ask yourself:

Do you need fast FPS? Do you really just spray shots as they go by? You might, which is why I ask.
Do you use the outer focus points or all focus points on your system (or did you)? Or do you mostly shoot center point?
Was there anything lacking in your 1D3 that you want an improvement on now?

I was in the same boat a few weeks ago. I sold my 7D, sold a 5D, kept selling things. Then picked up an excellent condition 1D3 from KEH for about $500.

Lately I have seen 1DIV's on this board for around $900.

Lately also seen 6D's on this board around $900. I think coming from a 1D series, you'll feel gimped with the 6D's AF abilities outside of the center point. Nevermind FPS. The outer points in poor light for tracking moving subjects, which you seem to do a lot of. This isn't something I'd put the 6D up to. Might want to focus on the 1D, 7D2, 80D idea.

Or, if you're looking to go full frame and have good AF beyond the center point, the options could be a used 5D3 (might be over budget by a little, but a higher mileage one could be had and its a serviceable camera), or maybe a used 1Ds Mark III (in your budget range, 1D everything and full frame; just no wifi).

So, makes me wonder... refurb 80D? Checks all your boxes for the most part.

Very best,


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Bassat
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Sep 29, 2017 09:32 |  #7

I agree with Martin, above. I've used the 1D3 & 1D4. I currently have a 6D. You will not like the AF on the 6D. I'm basically a center-point shooter in One-Shot so the 6D works fine for me. For moving targets, I really liked the 1D4. I sold it for an 80D when size/weight became an issue. I'm happy with that decision.


Tom

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hyppy
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Sep 29, 2017 09:49 |  #8

This is all really useful stuff though, thanks all.

80D?!? Hadn't even considered that. 6D is off the table though, which is a step towards making a decision at least.

To answer MalVeauX,
- There's method in any burst rather than click, hold, and hope for the best—it's usually quite predictable movement so I compose the shot with AI Servo ready, 'catch' the subject, then grab a burst of 2 or 3.
- I usually avoid using the centre point: think 'rule of thirds'
- Wireless connectivity was really the only thing lacking.

I think I'm veering towards the 7D mkII at the moment, at least while I read up on the 80D.




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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by MalVeauX.
Sep 29, 2017 09:58 |  #9

hyppy wrote in post #18462731 (external link)
This is all really useful stuff though, thanks all.

80D?!? Hadn't even considered that. 6D is off the table though, which is a step towards making a decision at least.

To answer MalVeauX,
- There's method in any burst rather than click, hold, and hope for the best—it's usually quite predictable movement so I compose the shot with AI Servo ready, 'catch' the subject, then grab a burst of 2 or 3.
- I usually avoid using the centre point: think 'rule of thirds'
- Wireless connectivity was really the only thing lacking.

I think I'm veering towards the 7D mkII at the moment, at least while I read up on the 80D.

Sounds like you do not need the highest FPS, so I wouldn't even put FPS on the table anymore as something to consider. Anything faster than 4 FPS is probably totally sufficient. So all these cameras will be nearly twice that anyways, or more.

Sounds like you need something with very good peripheral AF. So definitely drop the 6D. You'll want as many cross-types as you can. That means 1DIV, 7D2 and 80D for this price range.

Sounds like you really want WiFi. You can give WiFi to some cameras with adapters and stuff. Or you can get it built in in the newer bodies, like the 80D.

For the price, what you need, I think the 80D is going to be it.
It's $799 from Canon right now: https://shop.usa.canon​.com .../eos-80d-body-refurbished (external link)

Using an APS-C isn't going to be an issue on the wide end, like it used to be in the distant past. Today we have access to lots of inexpensive ultrawide options. 24mm on APS-C is not wide. But, you can get inexpensive lenses that are wide on an APS-C. The 10-18 STM for example, for cheap.

Very best,


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Bassat
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Sep 29, 2017 10:19 |  #10

Ok, the 80D should probably be in the mix. I believe the OP is in the UK, effectively ruling out USA Canon refurbs. I've had both the Canon 10-22 and the Canon 10-18. If you need focus speed, go with the 10-22. IQ is about equal, and the 10-22 has a 2/3 stop faster aperture across the range. It may be too wide though. I've been having pretty good luck practicing in the backyard with my recently acquired Tamron 17-50 non-VC. It seems to do OK, but I've shot no really moving targets with it yet. Oh, that is on the 80D. The 18-55 is no slouch with focus speed, either. I don't have a good feel for which lens to recommend for mid-range FL on a crop camera. Perhaps 15-85?


Tom

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mkkaczy
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Sep 29, 2017 10:27 |  #11

I switched from 1dIII to 1dIV. It was not a huge upgrade, but better over all camera. I really liked colors from 1dIII on jerseys. I am using the mk4 mainly for sport photography, but if I could have only one, it would be a used 5dIII for similar price to used 1dIV. Better ISO and AF (dark environments), silent shooter (wildlife and events), FF (does not cut anything from wide angles), if I need go lighter I detach the grip.


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hyppy
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Sep 29, 2017 10:27 as a reply to Bassat's post |  #12

So not sure about the 80D although it looks to have some nice features: My main concern being the shutter seemingly only rated for half the actuations of the 7D mkII. 100k vs. 200k. All other 'on paper specs' of the 80d look to be good though. I just like to know there's some built-in longevity. Also, and this is shocking, the UK price from Canon equates to more than $1,3000. Yay, Brexit! :-(

A low shutter count 7D mkII + wifi adapter + additional batteries is looking most likely right now.

And Bassat, I was just looking at those wider zooms. Just knowing they're an option is reassuring for now.




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Bassat
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Sep 29, 2017 10:57 |  #13

mkkaczy wrote in post #18462752 (external link)
I switched from 1dIII to 1dIV. It was not a huge upgrade, but better over all camera. I really liked colors from 1dIII on jerseys. I am using the mk4 mainly for sport photography, but if I could have only one, it would be a used 5dIII for similar price to used 1dIV. Better ISO and AF (dark environments), silent shooter (wildlife and events), FF (does not cut anything from wide angles), if I need go lighter I detach the grip.

I went from a 1D3 to a 1D4, and thought it was a big upgrade. 60% more MP meant easier cropping, and to me AUTO-ISO that worked well was quite handy.


Tom

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Phoenixkh
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Sep 29, 2017 16:24 |  #14

hyppy wrote in post #18462695 (external link)
Thanks for the input, Tom.

Low-mileage within my price range doesn't seem doable. We're talking 175000+, which is more than double my 1D mkIII had done. Would that put you off? It's worrying me!

Maybe I need just to stop kidding myself that my budget will stretch to a worthwhile 1D this time around, and learn to live with the crop?

Sorry... I hit "like" by mistake. I don't know exactly what your budget is but I've seen fairly low shutter count 1D IV's for just over $1000. I just picked up a second one.... 75k clicks... looks like it was never taken out of the box.

My other one, on the other hand, had 122k clicks when I bought it... and a fair amount of bumps and bruises.

I know people rave about the 7D2.... I prefer the 1D IV for a whole host of reasons. I am biased... I admit it. I had a 7D2 lemon.... while it was at the Canon Tech Service place, I bought the 1D IV, mainly to prove to myself that I wasn't nuts, or was just a bad photographer. I still have the 1D IV. ;)


Kim (the male variety) Canon 1D IV | 6Dc | 16-35 f/4 IS | 24-105 f/4 IS |100L IS macro | 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II | 100-400Lii | 50 f/1.8 STM | Canon 1.4X III
RRS tripod and monopod | 580EXII | Cinch 1 & Loop 3 Special Edition

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hyppy
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Sep 29, 2017 16:44 as a reply to Phoenixkh's post |  #15

Thanks for the additional comments.

While I'd happily have another 1D, I'm actually warming to the idea of the 7D. In reading thoughts and reviews here and elsewhere, I think it will work for me, and pound for pound, or rather £ for £, it's likely more appropriate a purchase right now.




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