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Thread started 03 Oct 2017 (Tuesday) 12:54
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WORLDWIDE PHOTO WEEK: Part 585 - Rule of Thirds

 
joayne
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by joayne.
Oct 03, 2017 12:54 |  #1

Every week we select a new theme, and then go out and shoot that theme. This week the theme is Rule of Thirds. As always be as imaginative/creative as you like when interpreting the theme, creativity is what we're looking for.


Show us examples of the "Rule of Thirds" .. (You can also break that rule, if you explain how the image still works  :p )


Here are the rules:
1. Shots need to be taken between Monday Sunset and the following Monday by Sunset (Whenever that is for you ). Because this activity is supposed to encourage us to get out and shoot, please don't post old shots from your archives. Snapshots and art are equally welcome -- just get out & shoot, and then share!
2. Post your shots at any time during the week.
3. Post a maximum of two shots if you're uploading them to POTN (i.e., attaching them). You can post more than two if you're linking to shots that are not hosted by POTN (i.e. embedding them) but keep within POTN rules. Also keep within POTN rules about size. A copy of the size rules can be found here: IMAGE POSTING RULES
That's it! Have fun! As always be as imaginative/creative as you like when interpreting the theme, creativity is what we're looking for.
An index to previous weeks can be found here: POTN WORLDWIDE PHOTO WEEK INDEX

That's it!
Have fun!


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OhLook
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Oct 04, 2017 22:54 |  #2

Dried flowers at an outdoor flower stand. Cropped so that the vertical boundaries between color-and-texture areas fall roughly 1/3 of the way in from each side.

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Oct 04, 2017 23:38 as a reply to OhLook's post |  #3

And this is a sample of that image, but SOOC with no reduction, to show that the full image should look sharper on POTN than it does. Of course, this one lost sharpness when uploaded, too. They all seem to. What technical thing am I missing?

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joayne
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by joayne.
Oct 05, 2017 02:52 |  #4

How are you posting to POTN.. embedding or linking?
What program are you using to download and then upload your images?

SO many questions :rolleyes:


*ahhh, hosted by server.. That answers one question.


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Oct 05, 2017 03:16 |  #5

OhLook wrote in post #18466278 (external link)
And this is a sample of that image, but SOOC with no reduction, to show that the full image should look sharper on POTN than it does. Of course, this one lost sharpness when uploaded, too. They all seem to. What technical thing am I missing?

Anything you upload that is bigger than 1280px on the long side, AMASS will reduce to 1280px and it's current algorithms are such that images will be ever so slightly softer. This will change in the next AMASS version. You will then have in fact several sharpening options to choose from.

However, looking at your shots, you uploaded them smaller than 1280px and so AMASS didn't have to downsize them and there should be no softening of your images. Having said that, images are greatly reduced in size (less than 200KB) when you upload them to the POTN server - which is of course understandable - but it does mean some loss of IQ. So maybe that accounts for the bit of softness that you are seeing.


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OhLook
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Oct 05, 2017 10:39 |  #6

joayne wrote in post #18466334 (external link)
How are you posting to POTN.. embedding or linking?
What program are you using to download and then upload your images? . . .
*ahhh, hosted by server.. That answers one question.

Does it answer both questions? I upload images directly from the Desktop. They're sharper on the Desktop than here. Are you asking what I use for PP?

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18466338 (external link)
Anything you upload that is bigger than 1280px on the long side, AMASS will reduce . . .

However, looking at your shots, you uploaded them smaller than 1280px and so AMASS didn't have to downsize them and there should be no softening of your images. Having said that, images are greatly reduced in size (less than 200KB) when you upload them to the POTN server - which is of course understandable - but it does mean some loss of IQ. So maybe that accounts for the bit of softness that you are seeing.

Before uploading, first image was 214 KB, second image was 291 KB. Resolution was 180 px/inch for both. Even the larger versions seen in the lightbox are softer than my originals.

I should think reduction in size would increase sharpness. That's what happens when drawings, for example, are photographically reduced for printing.


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Oct 05, 2017 11:00 |  #7

OhLook wrote in post #18466514 (external link)
Before uploading, first image was 214 KB, second image was 291 KB. Resolution was 180 px/inch for both. Even the larger versions seen in the lightbox are softer than my originals.

I wasn't aware that your images are so small in size before uploading. Mine are much bigger (between 1 and 2 MB) so are reduced in size much more.

I should think reduction in size would increase sharpness. That's what happens when drawings, for example, are photographically reduced for printing.

If you mean downsizing images then yes, an image that is downsized considerably (say more than 50%) usually does make an image softer. That's why most people will apply some output sharpening after downsizing their images.


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OhLook
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Oct 05, 2017 11:30 |  #8

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18466535 (external link)
If you mean downsizing images then yes, an image that is downsized considerably (say more than 50%) usually does make an image softer. That's why most people will apply some output sharpening after downsizing their images.

I mean reducing images: making a whole image smaller. If "downsizing" means something else, I don't know what it is.

The G15's sensor produces images 4000 x 3000 px. I often crop to 3750 x 3000 in Canon's ImageBrowser before copying the image to the Desktop for all other PP. Obviously, the dimensions after cropping were different for these two images. The Mac reduces an image to fit the Desktop, and the resulting size is about the same as what will appear on POTN. I edit that version. Usually, I sharpen a little (pushing the slider all the way to the right feels like cheating). For Image #1 above, I didn't sharpen, as it looked sharp already.

Resizing an image for POTN comes after all other PP because of the way my current computer and PP programs do things.

The small version of a shot on the LCD screen is sharper than the image will be at full size. A thumbnail is sharper than the photo it was made from. But reducing an image in uploading it makes it softer? -?


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joayne
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Oct 05, 2017 11:38 |  #9

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18466338 (external link)
Anything you upload that is bigger than 1280px on the long side, AMASS will reduce to 1280px and it's current algorithms are such that images will be ever so slightly softer. This will change in the next AMASS version. You will then have in fact several sharpening options to choose from.

However, looking at your shots, you uploaded them smaller than 1280px and so AMASS didn't have to downsize them and there should be no softening of your images. Having said that, images are greatly reduced in size (less than 200KB) when you upload them to the POTN server - which is of course understandable - but it does mean some loss of IQ. So maybe that accounts for the bit of softness that you are seeing.


Does AMASS also reduce/compress pixels per inch when hosted by POTN? Taking a 300ppi image and compressing it to 72ppi for the web for instance?

.. AMASS will have sharpening options? Did I read that correctly?


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joayne
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Oct 05, 2017 11:50 |  #10

OhLook wrote in post #18466514 (external link)
Does it answer both questions? I upload images directly from the Desktop. They're sharper on the Desktop than here. Are you asking what I use for PP?

Before uploading, first image was 214 KB, second image was 291 KB. Resolution was 180 px/inch for both. Even the larger versions seen in the lightbox are softer than my originals.

I should think reduction in size would increase sharpness. That's what happens when drawings, for example, are photographically reduced for printing.


I was asking if you host your images at some hosting site.. Flickr, Photobucket, SmugMug etc. You do not, as you said they are uploaded from your desktop.

Drawings are vector based, and increasing/decreasing size, does not affect them because they are not pixel based. Photographs are pixel based and enlarging or shrinking them affects sharpness. In some cases pixels are lost/removed from the image.

How do you reduce the size of your images.. Photoshop, DDP or some other software. Are you are reducing your image size or compressing your images. In PS you can "Save for Web" which actually removes pixels to "Compress" the image for the web, leaving the image softer as there are fewer pixel per inch. You may have an image that is 300 ppi and software will reduce that to 72 ppi for the web, making it load faster.


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John_B
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Oct 05, 2017 13:04 |  #11

I have not had any problems with my uploaded images or linked images??

Anyway here is my photo for WWPW "Rule of Thirds"

Water Rock Sky
1/3 water, 1/3 rock, 1/3 sky :-P


IMAGE: http://johnbdigital.com/landscape/water-rock-sky.jpg

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Sony A6500, A6000, Lenses, DMC-ZS40 & Apeman A80 <-- click to see (external link)
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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Oct 05, 2017 13:11 |  #12

joayne wrote in post #18466566 (external link)
Does AMASS also reduce/compress pixels per inch when hosted by POTN? Taking a 300ppi image and compressing it to 72ppi for the web for instance?

.. AMASS will have sharpening options? Did I read that correctly?

Pixels per inch is a measure irrelevant for the web, as is resolution. It's meaningless as it won't change the way you view an image the screen. It's only relevant if you print an image. What AMASS does is downsize an image to 1280px on the long side. And it will compress it to 150-200KB.

And yes, the next version of AMASS will have sharpening options. I think it's a bad idea as I think it will result in even more over sharpened images, but Pekka disagrees... ;-)a


Levina
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OhLook
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Oct 05, 2017 13:41 |  #13

joayne wrote in post #18466573 (external link)
How do you reduce the size of your images.. Photoshop, DDP or some other software. Are you are reducing your image size or compressing your images. In PS you can "Save for Web" which actually removes pixels to "Compress" the image for the web, leaving the image softer as there are fewer pixel per inch. You may have an image that is 300 ppi and software will reduce that to 72 ppi for the web, making it load faster.

I reduce in Preview, which is built into the MacBook. This is the window/panel/whatever for resizing:

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I thought the checked box for "Resample image" would preserve sharpness by removing pixels where they matter least, rather than randomly. No? Anyway, the image I upload to POTN is the reduced one, no matter how it was reduced. I'm comparing the image as it appears in a post against my copy of the reduced image after reopening the file.

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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
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Oct 05, 2017 14:42 |  #14

OhLook wrote in post #18466557 (external link)
I mean reducing images: making a whole image smaller. If "downsizing" means something else, I don't know what it is.

The G15's sensor produces images 4000 x 3000 px. I often crop to 3750 x 3000 in Canon's ImageBrowser before copying the image to the Desktop for all other PP. Obviously, the dimensions after cropping were different for these two images. The Mac reduces an image to fit the Desktop, and the resulting size is about the same as what will appear on POTN. I edit that version. Usually, I sharpen a little (pushing the slider all the way to the right feels like cheating). For Image #1 above, I didn't sharpen, as it looked sharp already.

Resizing an image for POTN comes after all other PP because of the way my current computer and PP programs do things.

The small version of a shot on the LCD screen is sharper than the image will be at full size. A thumbnail is sharper than the photo it was made from. But reducing an image in uploading it makes it softer? -?

Downsizing means taking an image of, say, 4000x3000px and turning it into an image of 1280x800px or 1000x600px or whatever.
The Mac does not reduce an image. It makes sure an image fits the screen by zooming out, so you can view it properly. But a 4000x3000px image will stay a 4000x3000px image until you actually downsize it yourself. So when you say that you edit "that version" it is the same version, i.e. 4000x3000px (or whatever you cropped it to).

A downsized image is compressed more and may look sharper but can also have artifacts. On the other hand, sharpening halos are also reduced which may result in a softer image. The quality of a downsized image depends on the algorithms used. In any case, when you sharpen make sure you are viewing your image at 100% or you may not sharpen enough.


Levina
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There is no such thing as ect. It's etc. (with period) from latin et cetera.
Colours are not complimentary but complementary.
My flickr (external link)

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Oct 05, 2017 16:06 |  #15

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18466635 (external link)
Pixels per inch is a measure irrelevant for the web, as is resolution. It's meaningless as it won't change the way you view an image the screen. It's only relevant if you print an image. What AMASS does is downsize an image to 1280px on the long side. And it will compress it to 150-200KB.

And yes, the next version of AMASS will have sharpening options. I think it's a bad idea as I think it will result in even more over sharpened images, but Pekka disagrees... ;-)a

I will agree with you that using AMASS to sharpen is not a good idea... :rolleyes:


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