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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography
Thread started 13 Oct 2017 (Friday) 21:29
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Social Media Sharing... without credit?

 
ckjm
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Oct 13, 2017 21:29 |  #1

Hey photogs...

so a quick backstory. I've recently started pushing to do more professional photography. I have my first wedding booked, I'm doing community photography projects, etc... it's all very fun and exciting and I'm very humbled and excited to see myself grow as a photographer.

Question 1: what limitations do you impose on clients regarding the sharing of your work if it showcases that person? Say I took a picture of Bob, let Bob have the pictures, and Bob posted it on Instagram without credit or watermark. How would you handle this?

Now here's where things get a little weird...

A former friend of mine used to shoot with me all the time. She got a little crazy, did some pretty sketchy things, got a little stalker-like with my boyfriend, and I decided it was best to cut ties... and I honestly did so civilly. But before all that, when we first started shooting together, she would frequently share my photos alongside hers. She wouldn't directly say "I took this" but she wouldn't say "hey my friend did this" either. I politely asked her to be more aware of how that could impact me, and she happily obliged... she started crediting me and promoting me (she's a huge social media advocate and has some odd power in advertising that way, it's mildly impressive), and I thought that was sweet. Well, time went on, events unfolded, and I had to part ways. Now she's gone to sharing my photos again without credit. But it is a photo of her that I took and that she re-edited (albeit, cropped and with a lot of saturation, ew).

Question 2: Given the weird stalkery past, should I just walk away from this? She's not even in the same state as me, she poses no threat from a business standpoint other than blatant disregard for common decency and respect, and I think I'm letting my glass of wine fuel my anger more than is fair... so what would you do?

Thanks!




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MalVeauX
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Joined Feb 2013
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by MalVeauX. 2 edits done in total.
Oct 13, 2017 22:28 |  #2

Sell to Bob, Bob pays, you deliver. Leave it at that. You cannot, and will not, control social media. You would do more harm trying to police everyone that edits/shares images you created and gave to someone that paid for your service. Contract. Pay. Work. Deliver. Walk away and don't worry what Bob is doing on social media. Maybe Bob will hire you again. Book next client. Repeat.

Probably best to just get over the idea that a friend of yours, or ex-friend, is using an image of themselves, that you happened to have originally made, and they're editing it and using it on social media. You cannot control social media. And if you continue to try to police the idea of what people do on social media, you will lose your hair, and lots of future clients.

Contract.
Pay.
Work.
Deliver.
It's business. Don't take it, nor make it, personal. Be professional.

Very best,


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Jethr0
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ON, Canada
Oct 15, 2017 14:36 |  #3

I agree with Malveaux on paid work. Once you're paid, move on. Unless it's a commercial client and they're not using the image(s) per your licensing agreement. Then you have something to say. Perhaps.

If you gave pics to bob for free and he cropped watermarks and didn't credit...that tells you a lot about Bob. Don't ever give Bob photos again. Bad on Bob.


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by Dan Marchant.
Oct 16, 2017 03:54 |  #4

Rule #1 Don't make enemies, but remember those who aren't really your friends.

Rule #2 If there is no money in it don't waste time over it.

Your stalker friend is sharing an image without credit... that means she isn't a friend, but she also isn't an enemy. She has already demonstrated an obsessive nature and if you do something she may interpret as an attack on her she could become an enemy (even if it is just bad mouthing you on social media) for a very long time. There is no money in pursuing this so just move on and forget about her. Obviously if she steals more images you will need to take action.

Likewise if Bob is giving away/using images in a way he shouldn't he isn't a friend and you don't give him any more. Of course this pre-supposes that you actually made clear to him what the limitations were. If you just give them an image they will like do whatever they want unless you make it clear that there are limits.

If a business takes your images and uses them to make money, or a paying client missuses images outside the scope of the clearly define license agreement you provided then you take action. What action you take depends on how much money is involved.


Dan Marchant
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Oct 16, 2017 05:27 |  #5

Most social media sites will allow you to file a take down notice for images you can show you own.

I don't have any experience with it though.


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drmaxx
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Joined Jul 2010
Oct 16, 2017 07:40 |  #6

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18473695 (external link)
Rule #1 [...] remember those who aren't really your friends.

Probably the best advice for peace and happiness in life.


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mikeinctown
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Cleveland, Ohio
Post has been edited 1 month ago by mikeinctown.
Oct 17, 2017 10:38 |  #7

Since you are just getting started as a business, it would serve you well to come up with a good contract which would include usage rights. have two different ones for say people who want you to do their family, and a separate one for other businesses who hire you. Most things will be the same, but one will be more restrictive with usage rights than the other. (as already mentioned above) There is a ton of info in here about certain contract clauses and how they help with xyz situation. Once you get a good contract worked up, pay a lawyer to look at it and approve.

Like everyone else has said, you cannot control social media, but you can control to an extent what gets posted. For example, size photos appropriately that can be shared on social media. By keeping them as small 50-70% exported files, you severely limit the ability of others to print your work but still retain the look of your photo for those viewing social media. Save the high res shots for in person delivery to your clients. Everyone seems to do it slightly different depending on their business model, but most agree not to put high res images up on social media.

last, don't worry about your friend or work you have done n the past unless it is some subject that you think you can make money from or it is a business using them. Start here and going forward, treat your once hobby as a business.

BTW, have everyone who you do work for sign a contract, even if it is your cousin or neighbor. The number of stories I have read here over the years about problems with friends or relatives is astounding.


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MatrixBlackRock
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Joined Aug 2017
La Belle FL USA
Oct 29, 2017 17:04 |  #8

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18473695 (external link)
Rule #1 Don't make enemies, but remember those who aren't really your friends.

Rule #2 If there is no money in it don't waste time over it.

Very good advice.

Mainly because, if there no profit to be made you will be viewed by many as non-professional, real clients want results and know they have to pay for it, that gives them leverage, very commonly when you do something for free trying to "get in," you will be dismissed as not being in the business.

Now, that's not to say you should never offer services at no charge in exchange for publicity, but the advertising value of those services should equal or exceed what you would make, if it was a paid for job.




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Bassat
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Oct 29, 2017 18:41 |  #9

My wife puts a lot of my stuff on FaceBook. Most of my extended family has at least some of my work on their own FaceBook page. I goodly portion of them use a photo of them I took as their 'profile' picture. All of the family homes I visit have at least one of my shots framed and displayed. I don't care one iota, and in fact I take a bit of pride in all of that. But I'm not trying to make any money with my cameras.

I was more than a little taken aback by Dan's comment above, "Rule #2 If there is no money in it don't waste time over it." I sincerely hope that applies to the 'business of photography, only. If not, that is extremely, depressingly, sad.


Tom

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Dan ­ Marchant
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Oct 29, 2017 20:24 |  #10

Bassat wrote in post #18484207 (external link)
I was more than a little taken aback by Dan's comment above, "Rule #2 If there is no money in it don't waste time over it." I sincerely hope that applies to the 'business of photography, only. If not, that is extremely, depressingly, sad.

The thread is about the OPs infringement problem, so that is what I was talking about.

When someone uses an image without permission your response should balance what you want to achieve against what it will cost to achieve it. If the infringer is some kid in Spokane who posted it on his FB page then suing is likely to cost more than you would ever recover because even if you win the kid has no money. So you ask him to take it down, file a complaint with FB and leave it there. If Microsoft steal your image and use it in an international marketing campaign they have money (and are making money from your image) so sue them. - If there is no money in it don't waste time over it.


Dan Marchant
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Bassat
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Oct 29, 2017 21:09 |  #11

Dan Marchant wrote in post #18484281 (external link)
The thread is about the OPs infringement problem, so that is what I was talking about.

When someone uses an image without permission your response should balance what you want to achieve against what it will cost to achieve it. If the infringer is some kid in Spokane who posted it on his FB page then suing is likely to cost more than you would ever recover because even if you win the kid has no money. So you ask him to take it down, file a complaint with FB and leave it there. If Microsoft steal your image and use it in an international marketing campaign they have money (and are making money from your image) so sue them. - If there is no money in it don't waste time over it.

How profoundly American, to sue where the money is. Seems like every case of lung cancer is caused by a tobacco company. Everyone from the farmer who grew the tobacco to the gas station attendant who sold the cigarettes is just as culpable. Why sue only the tobacco company? That's where the money is. And of course, it can't possibly be the smoker's fault.

Ditto lawn mower accidents, leaded paint, hair dryers dropped in bathtubs and whatever else you can think of. Billy was right.

If you can ask the kid from Seattle to take it down, and file a complaint against him, why not do the same with Microsoft? Duh, dude! That's where the money is. And we all complain about the price of insurance.


Tom

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Dan ­ Marchant
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Oct 29, 2017 22:31 |  #12

Bassat wrote in post #18484312 (external link)
If you can ask the kid from Seattle to take it down, and file a complaint against him, why not do the same with Microsoft? Duh, dude! That's where the money is. And we all complain about the price of insurance.

Copyright law allows you to decide who and how your images will be used and what action to take if they are misused. You can take no action, minimal action or the apply the full weight allowed by the law. Likewise you can choose to treat a kid from Spokane who posted your image on his FB because he likes it, the same as a giant multi-national corporation that is using your image without permission to advertise commercial products and generate revenue.

However, the fact you choose one way doesn't mean it's right or that others can't choose a different option. This is especially true given that, not only is each infringement different, but each copyright owner is also different. there is no reason why a hobbyist who takes photos for fun and has no interest in business should react in the same way as someone who pays their rent and puts food on the table as a working photographer.


Dan Marchant
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Instagram: @dan_marchant (external link)
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RDKirk
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USA
Oct 30, 2017 08:05 |  #13

Bassat wrote in post #18484312 (external link)
How profoundly American, to sue where the money is. Seems like every case of lung cancer is caused by a tobacco company. Everyone from the farmer who grew the tobacco to the gas station attendant who sold the cigarettes is just as culpable. Why sue only the tobacco company? That's where the money is. And of course, it can't possibly be the smoker's fault.

Ditto lawn mower accidents, leaded paint, hair dryers dropped in bathtubs and whatever else you can think of. Billy was right.

If you can ask the kid from Seattle to take it down, and file a complaint against him, why not do the same with Microsoft? Duh, dude! That's where the money is. And we all complain about the price of insurance.

That's not very different from the considerations made by a judge or jury criminal offense.

Both the status of the offender and the extent of the offense matter.

Or do those elements not matter in your country? A fifteen-year-old who shoplifts a candy bar gets the same penalty as man who embezzles millions from his company?




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Sideshot
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Post has been edited 3 days ago by Sideshot.
Nov 21, 2017 09:13 |  #14

Let it go.

I have seen people with small business fight over stupid stuff- Then... It gets flamed out of the fire ring. Their enemies start leaving bad reviews all over and spending hours and weeks sabotaging their business. So not worth it.

Things can gets out of control on social media really quick, it can ruin years of marketing and reputation in hours. Be professional and move on to the next paying job.




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HammerCope
Senior Member
775 posts
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Nebraska
Nov 22, 2017 11:51 |  #15

I do not shoot portraits but I do not allow photos on FB. If they want a photo for FB they pay special price. Then it also has a marking for it to be used only on FB. Most of my customers like it. only the ones that wouldn't buy it and only steal are the ones that have problem. If I see it on FB with out the makings I just have FB remove it.


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Social Media Sharing... without credit?
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