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FORUMS Other Digital Cameras Fuji Digital Cameras
Thread started 19 Oct 2017 (Thursday) 18:30
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switching to fuji - wireless flash question/red beam assist

 
kaitanium
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Oct 19, 2017 18:30 |  #1

Looking to switch to Fuji XT2s for my work from canon 5dmkiii and have to figure out my wireless flash options. Looks like I may have 2 that fit what i do:

1. all in one system (preferred) - godox ving 860iiF or
2. trigger w/hotshoe passthrough and power control (cactus) + EFx500 onboard

Red beam focus assist is important to me also to get the camera to lock focus as fast and accurately as possible during low light - fast movement situations. Im assuming these two options I have allow for some sort of focus assist light. With the Godox system, its all in one but ive used it on my canon system and it wasnt the most reliable system compared to my 600ex setup.

Does anyone have general experience or suggestions?




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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Oct 19, 2017 19:08 |  #2

You won't get the same snap when using IRAF assist on a DSLR, mirrorless can't work that way but Godox seem to have their laser grid beam working for Fuji. It does speed up low light AF a lot.

Although a welcome addition having that assist beam I'd still say you should see how Fuji implement their manual focus assist tools. I found them to be brilliant in the field and now often shoot fully manual, including AF, at events. Loads of options available, my setup is back button focus with hi-red peaking and zoom. I just have to start to twist the focus ring and it zooms in. That I find very fast and accurate.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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kaitanium
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Post has been edited 1 month ago by kaitanium.
Oct 19, 2017 21:00 |  #3

I dont have a XT2 to test but can check out manual on my x100T. Doesnt seem like MF will be faster than AF though even with tools to assist but I could be wrong. I rapid fire at times during events and fast motion like dancing.

I dont plan on ever using any camera to focus in low light without some sort of focus assist. I dont even use my canon 5d3s without a beam.




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EverydayGetaway
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Oct 20, 2017 11:45 |  #4

kaitanium wrote in post #18476443 (external link)
I dont have a XT2 to test but can check out manual on my x100T. Doesnt seem like MF will be faster than AF though even with tools to assist but I could be wrong. I rapid fire at times during events and fast motion like dancing.

I dont plan on ever using any camera to focus in low light without some sort of focus assist. I dont even use my canon 5d3s without a beam.

Mirrorless in general is a different animal when it comes to low light AF though. I found that my a7S and my X-Pro2 generally AF far better than a DSLR without an assist beam. That said, they definitely do not AF as quickly as a DSLR with an assist beam.

The X-TransIII cameras are a pretty big step up from the X100T (I have an X100T, X-T1, and X-Pro2), so testing with the X100T won't really give you a fair assessment. I would recommend renting an X-T2/T20/Pro2 to get a real taste of what the AF system is like and whether it will suit your needs.

I've personally never had a problem with it and I have nothing but Fuji's older and slowest lenses.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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kaitanium
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Oct 20, 2017 15:10 as a reply to EverydayGetaway's post |  #5

thanks! thats interesting to know that mirrorless does better in AF without a beam. Wouldnt more contrast/light help focus in general?




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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Oct 20, 2017 15:19 as a reply to kaitanium's post |  #6

If the camera uses CDAF in low light then yes it will. Fuji's cameras focus down to -3EV. MY experience is the same as Mr. EverydayGetaway with that regard. You Manual focus speed is entirely dependant on your input, it get quite easy after a while but I doubt it'll ever be a snap like good AF can do at times.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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kaitanium
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Oct 23, 2017 00:25 |  #7

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18477031 (external link)
If the camera uses CDAF in low light then yes it will. Fuji's cameras focus down to -3EV. MY experience is the same as Mr. EverydayGetaway with that regard. You Manual focus speed is entirely dependant on your input, it get quite easy after a while but I doubt it'll ever be a snap like good AF can do at times.

what EV do canon's focus down to?




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AlanU
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Oct 29, 2017 00:32 |  #8

kaitanium wrote in post #18476360 (external link)
Looking to switch to Fuji XT2s for my work from canon 5dmkiii and have to figure out my wireless flash options. Looks like I may have 2 that fit what i do:

1. all in one system (preferred) - godox ving 860iiF or
2. trigger w/hotshoe passthrough and power control (cactus) + EFx500 onboard

Red beam focus assist is important to me also to get the camera to lock focus as fast and accurately as possible during low light - fast movement situations. Im assuming these two options I have allow for some sort of focus assist light. With the Godox system, its all in one but ive used it on my canon system and it wasnt the most reliable system compared to my 600ex setup.

Does anyone have general experience or suggestions?

I've used my Fuji X-t2 with Cactus V6mk2 on my hotshoe (with clip removed from the fuji hotshoe) with my 600 ex-RT ontop. THIS SETUP IS ABSOLUTELY UNPROFESSIONAL AND UNRELIABLE!!!!!! The Cactus v6mk2 and v6mk1 does not fit nice on the fuji X-t2 hotshoe and does not feel secure. The weight of this setup feels top heavy and very unbalanced. The V6mk1 has a hardwired TTL function but I've never tried it with fuji. The V6mk2 has a software TTL connection so this is why you can use a canon flash using ETTL. I will warn you that using that setup (x-t2/cactus v6mk2/canon flash) you CANNOT HAVE FEC flash exposure compensation so if you use that setup for serious shoots you will not be professional since you cannot control your light properly.

I've considered GODOX but I'm already quite invested in cactus with RF60 flash units and they have been very good in reliability in events photography when I use my Canon gear.

I've stopped experimenting with my Fuji and cactus because it's already a terrible combo due to connection issues. I wouldn't be caught using such a combo for hired events. I will however say when that combo works the flash is controlled well automatically. However for any dark situations or reflective situations..........un​cle bob will do better with his point and shoot!!!!!

Before you swap systems I'd suggest using both. If you read this forum I'm a dual system user but my Canon gear is absolutely rock solid with zero hunting issues using infra red focus assist on my Canon flash units in a pitch dark cave. I will NOT use my Fuji in low light venues because I am not fast enough to manual focus to land the shot when my fuji AF fails in low contrast low light situations. I will have to say its incredibly difficult to manual focus in low light when you cannot see your subjects clearly in a viewfinder. I know my Canon I can virtually shoot blind and the infra red will land the shot with high accuracy giving me tack sharp images effortlessly.

I urge you to buy a fuji body and experiment. I absolutely love my fuji system for most applications but there are weaknesses that I cannot let my Canon gear go. This is my style and preference. I just find that I have more photos to choose from in fast moving low light situations so I have a better selection so cull the bad and sift through more money shots. I have used my fuji xt2 enough now that I know my application I will have more blurry shots due to failing AF in low light.

Everyone is different but for me I've reserved my Fuji gear for pleasure and if I miss a shot I don't get as disappointed.

What you will find is that Fuji is more dependent on AF speed by the lenses used. With my Canon gear my only slug slow AF is my 85Lmk2 otherwise all of my canon lenses I can capture extremely fast subjects using constant AF with NO issues. I can say my Fuji it's an effort in capturing faster moving subjects even with my fuji 10-24mm lens while my Canon bodies can capture almost anything using C-AF with my aging 16-35 f/2.8mk2.

See for yourself...........I know you'd probably admire the fuji image quality. Images have a pleasant look virtually SOOC. What you see is what you get (WYSIWG) will spoil you and potentially make you loose your touch when you use a mirrored body.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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kaitanium
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Post has been last edited 22 days ago by kaitanium. 3 edits done in total.
Oct 29, 2017 01:35 |  #9

Good honest review. Thanks. Now I wonder how the cactus setup is with a EFx500 on top (an actual fuji branded flash) with the cactus triggering trigger attached flashes wirelessly. I expect non fuji flashes to be unreliable on a fuji so the 600ex on top of your trigger on top of your fuji fits that suspicion. The EFx500 also has a built in LED to light up subjects for focus which im wondering could be better than faint red beam emitted by the 600ex if it emits at all with the cactus in between. By "unreliable" are you saying it doesnt trigger off camera flashes reliably?

I have heard mixed reports of the fuji being good and being bad for events which is why im asking around to see what people have experience in. Canon is rock solid for sure which is why all these years i have not wanted to switch (other than to nikon). Whichever smaller system i switch to it must at least be good as my days of old 5d2. im not expecting it to match my 5d3 performance. Im more concerned about reliability of low light operations than pic quality or anything else. Fuji pics are nice, but that sort of nice is nothing if it cant focus in dim situations with or without beam assist




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AlanU
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Oct 29, 2017 02:12 |  #10

kaitanium wrote in post #18483656 (external link)
Good honest review. Thanks. Now I wonder how the cactus setup is with a EFx500 on top (an actual fuji branded flash) with the cactus triggering trigger attached flashes wirelessly. I expect non fuji flashes to be unreliable on a fuji so the 600ex on top of your trigger on top of your fuji fits that suspicion. The EFx500 also has a built in LED to light up subjects for focus which im wondering could be better than faint red beam emitted by the 600ex if it emits at all with the cactus in between. By "unreliable" are you saying it doesnt trigger off camera flashes reliably?

I have heard mixed reports of the fuji being good and being bad for events which is why im asking around to see what people have experience in. Canon is rock solid for sure which is why all these years i have not wanted to switch (other than to nikon). Whichever smaller system i switch to it must at least be good as my days of old 5d2. im not expecting it to match my 5d3 performance. Im more concerned about reliability of low light operations than pic quality or anything else. Fuji pics are nice, but that sort of nice is nothing if it cant focus in dim situations with or without beam assist


The cactus trigger does NOT fit well on top of the fuji X-t2. The Fuji EF-x500 is actually a nice flash but expensive and IMO not fully proven as it's still somewhat new. White piercing assist light from the fuji flash or fuji body is extremely obnoxious IMO when your in a dark venue. The red focus grid of the Canon/Nikon system is definitely ideal IMO.

The trigger fits sloppy on the Fuji camera XT2. If you keep the clip on the hotshoe of the fuji camera the contact might not even trigger the flash as the contacts will not have good connection (contact between camera body hotshoe to cactus trigger)

Even my 5dc with flash never hunted on a low lit reception or dancefloor all because of red infra red focus assist. I will guarantee that the Fuji with EF-X500 will not lock on as well as the old 5dc with canon speedlight.

In bright lit events the Fuji will work but I know I will still lock focus faster with my 5dmk3/5dmk4 and 80D. I've actually shot some events for friends where I used Canon as primary and fuji w/ 56mm or 16mm as a natural light secondary. It worked well for outdoor or brighly lit situations. For the ease of "NOT" getting unsettled stomach I simply use my Canon gear with full confidence for battery life and AF regardless of light situations.

Be careful about judging too soon on Fuji AF. I discovered myself that fuji will not be suitable for my style for hired events. However for personal projects and enjoyment it's an amazing IQ machine. I will say modern day autofocus will always produce tack sharp images faster than most manual shooters.

I have zero tolerance when I miss a shot due to failing camera gear. If I was the "one in question" in missing a shot I have no one to blame but myself. This is why I'm sticking with canon as a reliable incredibly fast AF system. There are times when I honestly was disgusted in my Fuji X-t2 in low light autofocus. Do some reading on FM and you'll hear some open minded individuals expressing identical view like myself.

If your a natural light shooter for portraits you'll love fuji. The soft looking "yet sharp" images has a very pleasant look. The 56mm f/1.2 prime renders amazing images but with Fuji's latest update to the Fuji X-t2 it has a mild rattle snake autofocus (not too loud) but it's improved a tad on AF speed. AF motor action is definitely more aggressive with less finesse.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Oct 29, 2017 07:48 |  #11

kaitanium wrote in post #18483656 (external link)
I have heard mixed reports of the fuji being good and being bad for events which is why im asking around to see what people have experience in. Canon is rock solid for sure which is why all these years i have not wanted to switch (other than to nikon). Whichever smaller system i switch to it must at least be good as my days of old 5d2. im not expecting it to match my 5d3 performance. Im more concerned about reliability of low light operations than pic quality or anything else. Fuji pics are nice, but that sort of nice is nothing if it cant focus in dim situations with or without beam assist

There is no mirrorless camera that can use IRAF assist, even your Canon DSLR cannot use it in live view. The best you can get is Godox's red AF laser assist. That works OK and I've found the TT685f to be reliable, in the limited time I've used it. I have and do use their bigger AD600 a lot and that is rock solid flash after flash after flash, so I'm hoping for the same in the speedlight.

I dropped my Canon 5D3's when the X-PRO2 came out and with Fuji giving lots of updates via firmware it has only gotten better with time, for me. I was never a manual focuser with my 5D3, outside of video, as the viewfinder has no focus aids. With the Fuji I have loads of help and in reality it is very easy to use. Although I generally find that, in the events that I shoot, there is usually enough light for the camera to lock on fast enough. The right lenses play a big part in that too, any of the Fuji lenses the have a linear motor are very fast, the ones with LM in the name like the XF 16-55mm f/2.8 R LM WR Lens will help you out there.

One point to correct Alan when he said "I will have to say its incredibly difficult to manual focus in low light when you cannot see your subjects clearly in a viewfinder"

There is a setting in the menu to allow you to turn off/on the WB &/or exposure preview, with it on you see the exposure in the EVF live so you can see how dark or bright the image will be, like looking at the image after you shot it. Turn that off and you get a bright view of the subject regardless of the settings of the camera. This is how you need to shoot in the dark with flash, in essence the camera can 'see in the dark' something a DSLR cannot do.

Really you should probably ask your self why you are looking to change to shooting Fuji and see if the strengths are there for your needs. I've shot events in some very challenging light, including inside an ice cave [for Coors/Molson] and the Fuji cameras did a good job. I didn't need a DSLR and still haven't found a time where I said to myself, oh if only I had brought a 5D3 with me, not once.

For me the TTL/HSS flash was the last piece of the puzzle, the Nissin flash was good but the Godox system is better. See if you can have a play with an X-E3 as that has the latest development in AF, the other cameras are getting the same AF over the next couple of months via Fuji wonderful commitment to continually improving their cameras through updates.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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kaitanium
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Post has been edited 22 days ago by kaitanium.
Oct 29, 2017 12:28 |  #12

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18483738 (external link)
Really you should probably ask your self why you are looking to change to shooting Fuji and see if the strengths are there for your needs. I've shot events in some very challenging light, including inside an ice cave [for Coors/Molson] and the Fuji cameras did a good job. I didn't need a DSLR and still haven't found a time where I said to myself, oh if only I had brought a 5D3 with me, not once.

Thanks for the insight all. Looks like now we have mixed reviews! Ill probably eventually buy a XT2 with a minimal event setup just to test it out. Ill sell it if it doesnt work out.

Why do I want to switch? I dont really care if its Fuji or anyone else, I just want a system that is:
1. smaller than my 5D3 + lenses
2. 1 travel system, i.e. i can bring my work cameras on travel. Right now I have the canons + a X100T and use the x100t on travel. In the past ive had canon + OMD EM5. I just want 1 smaller system and fewer cameras and junk around.
3. can handle better than iso 800 that my omd em5 topped out at.

So those are my top priorities why fuji hits the nail on the head. Yes and it fits the bill for those two top criteria which is why im now looking into low light AF performance.

The only competitor that comes sort of close is sony but i do not like their size, lens lineup and those high prices. The A7ii is in my budget but the lenses are large and that camera absolutely sucks in indoor room light focusing while people are dancing (not even dark!)




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AlanU
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Oct 29, 2017 12:29 |  #13

I seldom touch my canon 24-70Lmk2 for events. Fuji 10-24 is too slow in glass and it hunts in low light. This is where lens selection is also a consideration in manufacturer you use. My 16-35mm is blazing fast in acquiring af in canon world regardless of lighting conditions.

This is just my observations in Fuji vs Canon for hired events as for me I have little tolerance to AF weakness for absolutely critical photos.

However I love Fuji for a high percentage of my photography for pure joy.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Oct 29, 2017 13:11 as a reply to kaitanium's post |  #14

I think you always get conflicting views on any comparison with things like camera gear alright. I guess you already know the answer to your questions already.

One point on the AF with the XF 10-24mm, the hyperlocal distance at 10mm is 1.3 meters so anything from about two feet will be in focus. At 24mm anything from a little under 4 feet away will be in focus - with the focus set to 7 meters [the hyperlocal]. This is at a setting of F/4.

So you can see for events you really don't need to use AF with such a wide lens as long as you understand how to use it & that makes the camera a great tool and instant.


Fuji: X-PRO2, X-T1, X-E2 | 16/1.4, 18/2, 23/1.4, 35/1.4, 56/1.2, 90/2, 16-55/2.8, 10-24/4. AD600BM, TT865F, AL-H198, ThinkTank AS2, Peli1514, Ona Bowery, Matthews Grip
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AlanU
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Oct 29, 2017 15:11 |  #15

kaitanium wrote in post #18483908 (external link)
Thanks for the insight all. Looks like now we have mixed reviews! Ill probably eventually buy a XT2 with a minimal event setup just to test it out. Ill sell it if it doesnt work out.

Why do I want to switch? I dont really care if its Fuji or anyone else, I just want a system that is:
1. smaller than my 5D3 + lenses
2. 1 travel system, i.e. i can bring my work cameras on travel. Right now I have the canons + a X100T and use the x100t on travel. In the past ive had canon + OMD EM5. I just want 1 smaller system and fewer cameras and junk around.
3. can handle better than iso 800 that my omd em5 topped out at.

So those are my top priorities why fuji hits the nail on the head. Yes and it fits the bill for those two top criteria which is why im now looking into low light AF performance.

The only competitor that comes sort of close is sony but i do not like their size, lens lineup and those high prices. The A7ii is in my budget but the lenses are large and that camera absolutely sucks in indoor room light focusing while people are dancing (not even dark!)

I think you must test or buy an X-T20 or X-T2 for yourself and see if it meets your needs in low light performance. I will confidently say my Fuji does not meet my requirements for a low light shooter or accurate fast autofocus for spontaneous moments. I have a decent tolerance level but there are times I've mentioned I'd like to throw the X-t2 against a wall as "!AF" autofocus stops dead in it's track!!! My 5dmk3/mk4 still acquire focus much faster regardless of light situation especially with red focus assist.

What my Canon bodies cannot do is make a light travel kit with incredible IQ. This is why I have my Fuji system for "almost full frame" rich files and eye candy files. But ergonomics wise and weight my Canon 80D with 10-22 is silly light weight and add a 35mm f/2IS (56mm fov) I cant shoot alot with my style of shooting. If Canon actually produced a 24mm FOV f/1.4 crop sensor aps-c prime I'd be using my 80D alot more. The reason why I like Fuji is honestly because of the 16mm F1.4 (24mm FOV) prime lens and 56mm f/1.2 prime.

Another reason why I really love my 80D is because it responds just like my 5dmk3 but with a crop sensor in it. The high iso is somewhat similar to the fuji crop sensor. Small aperture images shooting landscape also has a canvas cartoon look just like Fuji. If you cruise the net you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. This is where you can see micro 4/3 bodies have a more realistic "real" look when shooting landscape. Dont take my word for it......just google landscape. Fuji render is unique with a softer brush look in many cases unless your shooting in hard light (hard light modifier from lights or edgy hard sunlight).

I was extremely happy when I got rid of my Olympus E-m5 and Panny GH3. The X-T2 destroys the those camera bodies both in image quality and high iso performance.

This is why I shoot two systems. I use the best characteristics in specific times. I cannot sell my Canon or Fuji. Although I was tempted to buy the Nikon D850 instead of my 5dmk4 just to test the Nikon waters..... too much $$$$ to jump though. Fuji (and 80D)is my perfect light weight compliment to my Canon FF gear.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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switching to fuji - wireless flash question/red beam assist
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