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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing
Thread started 20 Oct 2017 (Friday) 10:00
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So if we are done with LR, whats our choices?

 
Bassat
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Nov 08, 2017 10:46 |  #271

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18491774 (external link)
Yes, taking multiple shots with different exposure and blending them in post (or in camera), using highlight recovery and pulling shadows, or using other techniques that involve masks. And no, masking stuff is not difficult at all. Photoshop is all about layers and masking and you can make selections that are pixel accurate, something you can't do in a raw converter (as the above examples show).
...

I've tried to mess with layers in PSE. I can't seem to make any sense of it. I get by with DPP and LR. Like I said, lazy.


Tom

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Bassat
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Post has been edited 12 days ago by Bassat.
Nov 08, 2017 10:58 |  #272

kirkt wrote in post #18491686 (external link)
When getting to grips with DxO, one thing to remember is that, unlike most raw converters, DxO performs automatic corrections to tone, color, contrast, etc. on a per-image basis. If you do not like this starting point, you can remove all corrections (there is a preset called “no corrections” or something like that) and develop your own.

You can also customize the workspace and remove the tools that you do not use, or create multiple workspaces for individual tasks (a color and tone space, a crop and distortion space, a noise reduction space, a color grading and styling space, etc.). This will reduce clutter.

I do not use a DAM or enter keywords and that kind of thing, but you can do this within DxO. On a Mac, these labels are searchable within the Finder.

Kirk

You have hit on the two things I don't like about DxO: auto correct and 'searchable'. I found the auto-correct, and shut it off. Is the Finder only available in the Elite version? I am using the free 'Essential' version 11. I'd like a LR-like "\" searchable database, if it exists.

EDIT:
Looks like it is a Mac-only feature.


Tom

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kirkt
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Nov 08, 2017 11:15 |  #273

Bassat wrote in post #18491829 (external link)
You have hit on the two things I don't like about DxO: auto correct and 'searchable'. I found the auto-correct, and shut it off. Is the Finder only available in the Elite version? I am using the free 'Essential' version 11. I'd like a LR-like "\" searchable database, if it exists.

EDIT:
Looks like it is a Mac-only feature.

The "Finder" is the Mac desktop environment.

kirk


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Bassat
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Nov 08, 2017 11:19 |  #274

kirkt wrote in post #18491852 (external link)
The "Finder" is the Mac desktop environment.

kirk

OK, that explains it. :oops:


Tom

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Wilt
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Post has been edited 11 days ago by Wilt.
Nov 08, 2017 11:21 |  #275

nardes wrote in post #18491528 (external link)
Here are some beginner examples of what I managed to achieve with DxO PhotoLab.


thumbnailHosted photo: posted by nardes in
./showthread.php?p=184​91528&i=i176595429
forum: RAW, Post Processing & Printing

Just curious about the pre- vs. the post- side by side...I have annotated the shot and wonder where these things suddenly arise from...


  1. odd thing appearing at corner of laptop (orange arrow)
  2. where did these two black rectangular objects appear from? (magenta arrows)


IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/POTN%202013%20Post%20Mar1/DxOOp_zps39lhluts.jpg

[edit] OK, now I can see that the odd thing at the corner of the laptop is an indicator for Mask 2

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ErikN
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Nov 08, 2017 11:42 |  #276

Anyone I know who does studio work uses:
Capture One


The weird friends I have that are tech geeks and care infinitely about Microcontrast/tonality and all that stuff:
RawTherapee


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digital ­ paradise
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Nov 08, 2017 13:46 |  #277

I tried it twice and Capture is far closer out of the box than LR is. I can see a big appeal about that part. Less work to get it to where you want it. It does offer more options. People testing will notice that. Capture has more settings as well.

I have a few years of tweaks behind LR and against Capture I thought I did as good. It did not take years to get to it. Once in a while I make a few changes. Getting to understand the detail panel and NR is important. I don't see a lot of mention that you still get PS as well.

A big complaint is colour but as I have read Adobe Standard is washed by design and you are supposed to tweak to taste. Setting the profile the cameras or creating your using something like passport.

If Adobe ticks me off I'll drop the plan and go to Capture. I was impressed, just not $300 US with a pending update impressed right now.


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nardes
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Nov 08, 2017 14:11 |  #278

Wilt wrote in post #18491854 (external link)
Just curious about the pre- vs. the post- side by side...I have annotated the shot and wonder where these things suddenly arise from...


  1. odd thing appearing at corner of laptop (orange arrow)
  2. where did these two black rectangular objects appear from? (magenta arrows)


QUOTED IMAGE

[edit] OK, now I can see that the odd thing at the corner of the laptop is an indicator for Mask 2

The black rectangles have nothing to do with either DxO or the DxO Masking and Adjustment process, they just happen to be artefacts as a result of that mornings experimentation with illuminating the objects with OCF from an oblique angle, either side of the frame and then using PS to auto blend the frames. I just happened to use that "junk" image to illustrate some of the functionality I was exploring in DxO at the same time. It was a fun morning. :-)

Cheers

Dennis




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Gas ­ Hog
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Nov 09, 2017 04:13 |  #279

nardes wrote in post #18491590 (external link)
That was English - each word is defined in any decent English Dictionary;-)a, so what do you not understand?:-)

In #1 can you see the differences between the Pre and Post side-by-side comparisons?:-)
You should see 3 changes: the white door had gone to grey, the iPad has been toned down and the side of the bag has been lightened. Each is a separate and independent non-destructive edit, which does not affect the image globally. They can also be undone.
#2 shows 2 "Teal Overlays" which define a region or local selection (i.e. part of the image) showing where I would like to make a Local change, limited to the region defined by the Selection.
#3 shows just one of these Selection Masks and a series of associated Sliders which can be dragged Up/Down to apply a change to the Local region defined by the Teal overlay mask. This change will not be applied to the other parts of the image.
#4 illustrates that I have applied 3 individual Masks, each a separate entity, so I can apply specific changes to each of the 3 Masked regions independent of each other or the rest of the image.
In #4, the Masks are not shown, just the control points that define them.
In #2 and #3 the Masks are shown as Teal overlays so you can see where each effect will be applied.

In the post, I am showing what I was able to achieve just after a few minutes of playing with DxO PhotoLab, having previously used the Nik Software which used the same technology. I understand that this is a significant change; introducing (multiple) Local Edits as opposed to Global Edits.

Hope that clarifies some stuff for you, if not, head over to the DxO website.:-)

http://www.dxo.com ...oto-software/dxo-photolab (external link)

Cheers

Dennis

Ok clicking that link just cost me about 1/2 hour and probably $150 :-)
That is pretty impressive. The video about what they do for the camera correction is as dry as toast..but that kind of research is just that hard work.
Very nice I am hooked
Gary


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Mathmans
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Nov 09, 2017 04:29 as a reply to nardes's post |  #280

...To get back to original question...
As it seems our options are:
-DxO Optics Pro
-DxO Photolab
-Capture One Pro
-and some other software out there I'm not familiar with

So what can we say...
If someone thinks this alternative software can't replace Lightroom, there is no other way as to stay with Lightroom and go with their terms.

I Like Lightroom sliders but I don't use catalogs or other Lightroom search functions and other crap. I'm totally capable to do my own photo classification and organization in Windows folders and I don't mind to learn new software.
But I understand that it's hard for someone who is used to one of those "I'll do all the work for you" automatic software.
But that's just me. I like to do it by myself. For example, I don't want my smartphone to automatically connect to all junk I have on the shelves when I come home. I will tell him personally when and with what he can connect.




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teekay
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Nov 09, 2017 17:57 |  #281

Apart from one mention by Kirkt on the first page of this thread, I've seen no mention of Topaz Studio.

From what I've seen on various sites it looks good for someone like myself who doesn't need a DAM feature in their editor, so is anyone here using it? If so, comments?




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kirkt
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Nov 10, 2017 11:29 |  #282

teekay wrote in post #18492975 (external link)
Apart from one mention by Kirkt on the first page of this thread, I've seen no mention of Topaz Studio.

From what I've seen on various sites it looks good for someone like myself who doesn't need a DAM feature in their editor, so is anyone here using it? If so, comments?

One thing that it has going for it right out of the chute is that it uses LibRaw for its raw decoding engine. That is a win right there.

kirk


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Nick5
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Nov 13, 2017 09:00 |  #283

clipper_from_oz wrote in post #18483016 (external link)
well I just revisited capture one again due to the fact new lightroom classic is running at a snails pace when I use multiple brush's on a single RAW image in "development". This is even after Adobe Product engineering promised me in writing that these same issues I was experiencing under Lightroom 6( I provided Adobe Engineering in India and USA a test catalogue) would be fixed in the next update( classic update)...

Personally I believe Adobe are finished with targeting niche markets for lightroom ( originally pro and prosumer level photographers ) and are more interested in going after general consumers who dont want Photoshop but want a reasonably basic photo editing and cloud storage service .. This is a huge growth area unlike the pro and prosumer market that lightroom( and now defunct Aperture ) originally catered for so comes as no surprise that there are now 2 Apps released ( Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic) ..... IMO they ahve done this with the long term view to slow down development for "classic" hoping that eventually people will migrate across to Lightroom CC as its feature set develops thus allowing them to eventually fade out classic as Apple did with trying to migrate Aperture users over to Photo ..... Its also a lot stickier for the company if they have the consumer using the cloud for storage in addition to an editing package. . People will be more reluctant to churn to a new app if they have a bundle offering as Adobe and Apple are offering

So.....long and short of it is Im desperately attempting a second time to get used to Capture One editing workflow in the hope that when its confirmed by Adobe that my performance issues they promised would be rectified in a new update will never happen I will be sufficiently versed in capture ones process that I wont care at all what Adobe does and will be simply a matter of just double clicking on a different editing app icon to do my edits ! ...... The good thing though is revisiting Capture One has once again confirmed to me that Capture One is the more technically superior of the 2 editing packages so I know that forcing myself to understand the new process's of Capture One will in the long run be to my benefit.....Just hard to convince myself that all the learning Ive done with lightroom is now over although my photoshop skills arnt lost as Im keeping PS for time being. However that may also change given the launch of a PS desktop competitor in the form of Affinity which I have currently running on my IPAd Pro.

Also good to see Capture One have added a new feature which allows import of a Lightroom catalogue which although basic in what it allows to carry across edits wise still helps to minimise pain of converting to another app

would this now be the time for Canon to up their game and develop an Aperture / Lightroom equivalent that we can purchase?
sure it is expensive to develop. However it may keep the flow of our work flowing while keeping the flow of their DSLR market in the long run.


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ejenner
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Post has been last edited 6 days ago by ejenner. 3 edits done in total.
Nov 13, 2017 20:57 |  #284

I've been looking at stuff because I'm still using AfterShotPro v1 (v2 and v3 went downhill fast). Never used LR, tried it again recently and I just.....do....not....​like.....it.

The thing about ASP is (well, was) super fast to make local selections without a brush, which I do a lot. However, noise reduction, sharpening and other processing have moved on since 2013 and while adequate, it is not stellar. (The new Corel ASP is complete garbage - stay away). And if I ever have to replace my 5 yo computer and move to W10 I'm stuffed.

Recently looked an ON1 and CaptureOne.

After spending about 20 or so hours with C1, I'm pretty sure I am going to go that route and upgrade from ASP v1, despite the steep price. Of course there are a few things I'm not too excited about, but it has enough for me to make selections easily and is customizable enough for me to be quick using it. I like it quite a lot actually. Not sure how LR masks are stored, but compared to ASP it is going to take up a lot more disk space. Still, that shouldn't be too much of a problem, I might just have to change the way I store files and take advantage of C1's offline processing capability for older shoots (i.e. keep the last few months images locally instead of the last 10-12 months). And the images start off looking more similar to ASP than anything else. I will still use CS6 for a lot of detailed landscape photo work, so I don't need detailed blending, HDR etc...

On1 - might be good for some, but any software that doesn't have a curves tool that you can make finely tuned adjustment on right up front is a no-go. Anything where it is easier to apply a 'Hipster' preset than a curves adjustment in not good IMO. Masking is nice, but when do I ever replace a sky? Never. And for any other blending the smart brush is not so hot. Better for folks who want the basic adjustments in sliders and a lot of presets - seems strange that they added advanced masking to this front-end.

I might try Lumina, but is looks very LR-y on first glance and Macphun have been messing people about with their releases.


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digital ­ paradise
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Nov 13, 2017 22:05 |  #285

One thing I did not like about Capture was when I opened files I worked on in DPP the file correction history was attached to the files. I found that out after the trial and I'm sure there is a way to change that. It did it to me several years ago when I tried and so did DXO.


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So if we are done with LR, whats our choices?
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