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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 11 Nov 2017 (Saturday) 13:09
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ShadowHillsPhoto
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Joined Aug 2015
Schoharie, NY
Jan 22, 2018 21:56 |  #31

Osa713 wrote in post #18546968 (external link)
Here ya go! He set his camera to medium because the adapted glass cannot keep up with the native FE glass. Also he is limited to 10sec a frame and finds the best results with center AF only.  :p


Right, so you give up most of the specs that make the A9 so appealing in the first place to be able to shoot long adapted glass... thanks for making my point for me? How exactly is this competitive with a 1DXII at 14fps that can use all of it's AF points?




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ShadowHillsPhoto
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Schoharie, NY
Jan 22, 2018 22:05 |  #32

And for the record I have watched Patrick's videos before, including this one...




*Spoiler alert*

If you skip to about the five minute mark he'll tell you about the 25% keeper rate he was getting with the long glass on the Sony body.




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Osa713
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Joined Jun 2011
Houston, TX
Jan 22, 2018 22:06 |  #33

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546977 (external link)
Right, so you give up most of the specs that make the A9 so appealing in the first place to be able to shoot long adapted glass... thanks for making my point for me? How exactly is this competitive with a 1DXII at 14fps that can use all of it's AF points?

lol, It's all good man I am not convincing you to switch nor did I claim that shooting adapted glass would be on par with your setup to get the results you need. You stated there is a "massive hole" that makes mirrorless system incomplete.

I am just bringing balance to your claims. :lol:


LIGHT>LENS>BODY

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ShadowHillsPhoto
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Joined Aug 2015
Schoharie, NY
Jan 22, 2018 22:13 |  #34

Osa713 wrote in post #18546982 (external link)
lol, It's all good man I am not convincing you to switch nor did I claim that shooting adapted glass would be on par with your setup to get the results you need. You stated there is a "massive hole" that makes mirrorless system incomplete.

I am just bringing balance to your claims. :lol:

Why is it that mirrorless shooters act like shooting Canon is equivalent to using charcoal on a slate tablet due to differences in dynamic range that won't ever be noticeable in 99% of real world shooting scenarios, but get their panties in a twist when someone points out that Sony is missing an entire segment of lenses for sports and wildlife shooters?




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mystik610
Cream of the Crop
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Joined Jan 2012
Houston, TX
Jan 22, 2018 22:32 |  #35

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546981 (external link)
And for the record I have watched Patrick's videos before, including this one...




*Spoiler alert*

If you skip to about the five minute mark he'll tell you about the 25% keeper rate he was getting with the long glass on the Sony body.

Actually there is a very big advantage to using Canon glass on a mirrorless body vs a native dslr: critical focus accuracy. None of the maddening front/back focus issues that plague dslrs when shooting at fast aperture exist because the image sensor and af sensor are one and the same.

It's another situational deal, but for me as a portrait shooter even though I still own some Canon glass, I'll never shoot a Canon Dslr ever again.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

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EverydayGetaway
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Jan 23, 2018 01:27 |  #36

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546795 (external link)
Sure, if you parse things finely enough you will find things unique to any given brand. That's clearly not the point I was making though, and you know it. Completely neglecting large aperture telephotos isn't the same as not producing a particular niche lens, it's ignoring a significant cornerstone of any complete system. If you need to misrepresent what I said to set up a straw man for yourself it says more about your argument than mine.

I was entirely serious when I said I'm curious to see what Sony does in this space. Until they show that they are going to be a serious player in this part of the market though, then it's only fair to say that they have an incomplete system relative to Canon and Nikon.

I didn't misrepresent what you said. If having a small portable camera with fast primes, 4K video options, IBIS, and a good EVF matter to you, good luck with Canon or Nikon.

Horses for courses, as always. Making blanket statements like the one I responded to don't really help anyone. Of course, blanket questions like the TS posted don't either.

mystik610 wrote in post #18546842 (external link)
It's a matter of perspective depending on what you shoot. The world doesn't revolve around sports. That's actually a niche subset of photography as a whole.

For those of us that want mirrorless cameras, canon's offering are laughably incomplete. Now that might not affect you, but it is a fact.

The point that Lucas was making is that there is simply more choice these days.... Depending on what you shoot of course, but for those who don't shoot sports and wildlife both fuji and Sony offer pretty comprehensive systems that are worth considering.

This.

Osa713 wrote in post #18546928 (external link)
+1 on perspective, the concept about mirrorless being an incomplete system depends on who is using it. If you need every long lens to match what canon and Nikon has ever created then yes the system is "incomplete for you".

"I've paid very close attention to the state of the adapter market, and the performance with the big lenses is laughably bad". :lol:



"and if you are primarily a landscape shooter or one of these hipster "street" shooters that seems to be hiding behind every fire hydrant these days then you can even make the argument that these other brands have you fully covered." -:-D

"How does that negate the fact that there is still a massive hole in the lineups of all the Canon/Nikon alternatives?"- All about perspective here too, Others can view "massive hole" as mirrorless should be hurting for camera sales and out of business by now...

And this.

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546956 (external link)
Wow, that's a seriously demanding test of the AF. :rolleyes:

No, but I've read every review and watched every YouTube video I could find of people doing exactly that and come to the conclusion I don't need to spend my own money on the rentals to see it for myself when plenty of people have already tried it and all gotten the same disappointing results. Trust me, I would love nothing more than to be wrong. The reason I've looked into it is that I would seriously consider adding a Sony body to my lineup but all the evidence says it just isn't feasible yet. When I can put my 600mm f4 IS II on a Sony body with an adapter and get equal AF performance to my 1DXII (continuous AF on fast, erratically moving subjects) then I will happily give Sony a chance. Admittedly, it's been a month or two since the last time I scoured the internet for information on adapted 500mm and 600mm primes on Sony bodies and I know the technology moves fast, so if there's some new evidence please point me toward it. The last that I saw the gulf was still very, very wide.

You can't always trust reviews though... I learned that first hand with my X-Pro2. Just about every review I found said you should go with the X-T2 instead... no thanks.

I don't know what your needs are of the AF with your lenses, but I know my friend shoots birds with his a7Riii with Canon lenses with great results.

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546977 (external link)
Right, so you give up most of the specs that make the A9 so appealing in the first place to be able to shoot long adapted glass... thanks for making my point for me? How exactly is this competitive with a 1DXII at 14fps that can use all of it's AF points?

When did he claim that it was? He's pointing out that it is possible to use the a9 with Canon's glass (at least somewhat) effectively. Which goes back to one of my points in the first place... if you decide later in your photography path that you need super fast long lenses, then selling your kit for them isn't going to be a big deal given the expense involved in the lenses alone.

ShadowHillsPhoto wrote in post #18546984 (external link)
Why is it that mirrorless shooters act like shooting Canon is equivalent to using charcoal on a slate tablet due to differences in dynamic range that won't ever be noticeable in 99% of real world shooting scenarios, but get their panties in a twist when someone points out that Sony is missing an entire segment of lenses for sports and wildlife shooters?

I don't even shoot Sony... nor does Osa. Maybe we just like to acknowledge that Canon and Nikon are not the end-all be-all for photography anymore and pretending that they are doesn't help anyone.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
flickr (external link) // Instagram (external link)

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mystik610
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Joined Jan 2012
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Post has been last edited 28 days ago by mystik610. 6 edits done in total.
Jan 23, 2018 08:09 |  #37

Very generally the camera market is more segmented than it was 4 years back, and the product lines are more specialized. This is good for photographers as photography is a very broad thing, and there are more specialized choices these days. In that regard the best brand is a very subjective thing that is highly dependent on what you shoot.

That said, the insistence by sports and wildlife guys that the value of a brand is determined by how many super long telephoto they have available is ridiculous. That'd be like telling someone in the market for a sports sedan that BMW sucks because nothing in their lineup of vehicles can tow large hauls. Why should someone who will never tow large hauls care about that? Same with fast aperture super telephotos for those who don't shoot sports and wildlife. I've been shooting for 15 years and have never owned a lens longer than 200mm. Of course you could turn this around and say that people who don't care for mirrorless cameras shouldn't care for Sony or fuji either. The point is that now more than ever things are very subjective.


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - Sony 50 1.8 - Sony 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART

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davesrose
Title Fairy still hasn't visited me!
3,130 posts
Joined Apr 2007
Atlanta, GA
Jan 23, 2018 09:37 as a reply to mystik610's post |  #38

As overall camera sales continue to reduce to just professionals and committed amateurs, I would think the camera market will continue to be segmented. As recent posts have highlighted, certain brands are more appropriate for certain specialties (IE sports and wildlife, or street photography, or studio/portrait). IMO, it's only a good thing that there are different brands and camera formats to chose from: so you're more certain to pick the system that fits your needs.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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