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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting
Thread started 23 Nov 2017 (Thursday) 21:23
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28" Beauty Dish Efficiency, Speedlite?

 
MalVeauX
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Nov 23, 2017 21:23 |  #1

Hey all,

Looking for some measurements if anyone is willing to oblige.

I'm considering a 28" beauty dish for fast outdoor lighting that will be generally used on a lighting stick to move quickly with a subject.

However, before I commit to it, I'm curious if I can get away with a speedlite. I have my 600Ws portable strobe. But, I'm really curious if I could manage at least fill in the sun with a speedlite at close proximity. Something like 4~5 feet, tops. Maybe closer. But probably more generally around 4 feet or so, just to be safe with estimations. I have the Flashpoint R2 TTL speedlite and the Yongnuo YN685. Their output are similar. I'm curious if anyone has one of these, or similar, equivalent, and wouldn't mind metering what a white interior beauty dish at 4 feet achieves. I would never need it to achieve greater than F2.8 output most likely. I'm usually at that, or larger, so it would serve as near key or high fill basically. Curious about it without a diffuser cap and with a diffuser cap.

I generally use a 10 inch reflector and my 600Ws which is very efficient, a fireball even.
I also use my 60" Softlighter II with my strobe.

But, I'm looking to see if I can add a fairly robust fast-light that can be held or put on a stand that doesn't just grab wind the way my 60" does, but is easier for spread when closer to the subject than my 10" reflector.

Thanks!

Very best,


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Lotto
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Nov 24, 2017 01:29 |  #2

Hey,I don't have a 28" white BD. Before Godox, I used to play with different sizes of BD for my Canon Speedlites. They are not that efficient with speedlite, but you should have no problem to get f2.8 from 4 feet.

I dug out my home made 13" aluminum BD with Godox 860. Different size of BDs gave close meter reads, as I recall.

4' from meter, iso100, 860II full power: F10. With diffusion sock, F6.3. In comparing AD200 with Godox 12" beauty dish, F25.

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OceanRipple*
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Post has been edited 24 days ago by OceanRipple*.
Nov 24, 2017 05:12 |  #3

Hi, You say 'fill in the sun' - and f2.8 etc - just to be clear, are you assuming HSS enacted or not? Tx.




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MalVeauX
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Post has been last edited 24 days ago by MalVeauX. 2 edits done in total.
Nov 24, 2017 07:38 |  #4

OceanRipple* wrote in post #18503103 (external link)
Hi, You say 'fill in the sun' - and f2.8 etc - just to be clear, are you assuming HSS enacted or not? Tx.

Assuming the capability; I use HSS, ND filters, and sometimes I'm using a camera with a leaf shutter that syncs.

I know I won't be getting a fireball out of it from a speedlite. But, I'm trying to see if anyone has a similar flash that can meter (or at least get an idea of, since metering in HSS isn't happening for most people) the output at around 4~5 feet from a 28" white filled BD with and without a sock, both at sync speeds (1/200s, base ISO) or in common values like 1/2000s, ISO 100, F2.8 or something like that as fill. I shoot in the sun, but I'm often always not directly in it too.

Thanks!

An AD200 is on my short list right now. I'm more and more moving towards lighter, smaller, faster gear. The output of the AD200 is ideal it seems for lots of the outdoor things I do. So I will probably get one this year. But for now, I'm curious about the speedlite output. I'll play between my speedlites and my 600Ws strobe before comitting to something in between.

I have output already in my 600Ws, so it's not about that, but I'm curious about adding a beauty dish to my setup and it will be used virtually always outdoors in partial sun, or full sun, some shade, etc. I know my 600Ws will output with it fine. I'm mainly curious how a speedlite will be handled with output in one because I don't have a beauty dish and I'd like to add one, a larger one, but I also don't want to be totally restricted to my 600Ws in the beauty dish as its heavy and will require a stand, counter weight, etc. A speedlite on a beauty dish on a light stand, another person can hold that up which would be really useful for running and fast sessions.

Very best,


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deejjjaaaa
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Post has been edited 24 days ago by deejjjaaaa.
Nov 24, 2017 09:38 |  #5

MalVeauX wrote in post #18503131 (external link)
A speedlite on a beauty dish on a light stand, another person can hold that up which would be really useful for running and fast sessions.

if you have another person then why'd you bother with speedlite instead of the head like one from Godox


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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 24 days ago by MalVeauX.
Nov 24, 2017 09:53 |  #6

deejjjaaaa wrote in post #18503183 (external link)
if you have another person then why'd you bother with speedlite instead of the head like one from Godox

I don't always have another person.

Looks like a wired light to me. This is for outdoor. I'm not fooling with wires or cables at all.

And I'd rather not have cables to battery packs either. That's just more wires and more stuff.

My strobes for outdoor use internal lithium battery. They're just heavy for hand holding.

So for right now I'm interested in how a speedlite would handle this, while I await the potential move to a AD200 since it's similar size and portable and not super heavy like my 600Ws but more powerful than my speedlites.

Very best,


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OceanRipple*
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Nov 24, 2017 10:01 |  #7

MalVeauX wrote in post #18503131 (external link)
Assuming the capability; I use HSS, ND filters, and sometimes I'm using a camera with a leaf shutter that syncs.

I know I won't be getting a fireball out of it from a speedlite. But, I'm trying to see if anyone has a similar flash that can meter (or at least get an idea of, since metering in HSS isn't happening for most people) the output at around 4~5 feet from a 28" white filled BD with and without a sock, both at sync speeds (1/200s, base ISO) or in common values like 1/2000s, ISO 100, F2.8 or something like that as fill. I shoot in the sun, but I'm often always not directly in it too.

Thanks!

An AD200 is on my short list right now. I'm more and more moving towards lighter, smaller, faster gear. The output of the AD200 is ideal it seems for lots of the outdoor things I do. So I will probably get one this year. But for now, I'm curious about the speedlite output. I'll play between my speedlites and my 600Ws strobe before comitting to something in between.

I have output already in my 600Ws, so it's not about that, but I'm curious about adding a beauty dish to my setup and it will be used virtually always outdoors in partial sun, or full sun, some shade, etc. I know my 600Ws will output with it fine. I'm mainly curious how a speedlite will be handled with output in one because I don't have a beauty dish and I'd like to add one, a larger one, but I also don't want to be totally restricted to my 600Ws in the beauty dish as its heavy and will require a stand, counter weight, etc. A speedlite on a beauty dish on a light stand, another person can hold that up which would be really useful for running and fast sessions.

Hi, I'm away from base so can't easily post evidence - but while a Speedlite can just about cope when un-modified, IMO you will always be at the edge of the envelop with a Speedlite modified using a BD. BDs are pretty lossy in terms of transmission efficiency anyway. More so if you need HSS or (slightly less) an ND filter etc.




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Wilt
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Nov 24, 2017 10:03 |  #8

Well, you should already know at ISO 100 what your speedlight is already capable of achieving with your 10" reflector, at its best.
And we know from experience that one loses about 1.5EV of light when bouncing from the ceiling, but a metal surface will be somewhat more efficient than a white ceiling. So one can guestimate that you will be -1EV compared to your 10" reflector, at best, since the photons are spread over 14x as much surface area.

I'd be interested in hearing any actual test results, to see how my guestimate compares!


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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 24 days ago by MalVeauX.
Nov 24, 2017 10:08 |  #9

Yea, I figure this is pushing it. Granted, again, not looking for F8 or F11 light at 10 feet. Just looking to be able to hover it maybe 4~5 feet and get fill light around F2.8 tops.

I recently tested my 60 inch Softlighter II with the speedlite in manual 1/1 power (no ETTL, no HSS, to get maximum output) at 24mm zoom and metered F1.8 at around 30 inches.

It made me wonder what I could get out of a BD that was larger (22" ~ 28"). I know I will lose power using ETTL & HSS. But, if it still is around F2~F2.8 at 48" or so, that would work for my needs. At least until I can get a stronger portable light that is still small (like the AD200).

I may just get the BD and test it out.

Very best,


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bobbyz
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Nov 24, 2017 17:45 |  #10

Way back I had two 550ex in Kacey's dual bracket trying to do HSS using PW Flex. In manual power mode, not bad, but in HSS I loose quote a bit. Setup was cumbersome. Why not use AD200 on that beauty dish?

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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 23 days ago by MalVeauX.
Nov 24, 2017 17:51 |  #11

bobbyz wrote in post #18503462 (external link)
Way back I had two 550ex in Kacey's dual bracket trying to do HSS using PW Flex. In manual power mode, not bad, but in HSS I loose quote a bit. Setup was cumbersome. Why not use AD200 on that beauty dish?

Thanks,

As soon as I have an AD200, I'll use it for sure when I want a light setup with ETTL & HSS. I just don't have the AD200 yet. I just migrated from Canon to Fuji for my portrait kit (still have Canon for my wildlife and macro, etc). So I have to wait a while to be able to do some serious buys in lighting for a little while (I'm considering the $300ish for the AD200 to be serious at the moment because I have to juggle a lens vs a light at this cost). And since I already have a lot of portable lighting, I'm just exploring little things while I wait to get the AD200. I could use my 600Ws with the BD right now. But it's a 6lb light. Was just toying with the idea of how effective a 28" white BD would be with a speedlite (in this case a Flashpoint R2 TTL Li-on). My new lenses are F1.2 and f1.4, but I may go back to using ND filters for a while instead of HSS to preserve the power and let ETTL do its thing to avoid needing to meter for fast sessions.

Lotto's tests above are promising though. F6.3 with a sock on the 13". I realize a larger dish will soak up more light, but still, only needing to basically hit values under F2.8 make it possible. I don't even want to try to meter things down to F1.2 for fill, so ETTL is a real life saver for moving fast.

Very best,


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Lotto
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Nov 24, 2017 19:16 |  #12

Martin, do you have one of those S Brackets to test? With diffusion cap on the 10" reflector, the light spread is quite wild, and I got F11 at 6 feet with the sock on.

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MalVeauX
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Post has been edited 23 days ago by MalVeauX.
Nov 24, 2017 19:34 |  #13

Lotto wrote in post #18503493 (external link)
Martin, do you have one of those S Brackets to test? With diffusion cap on the 10" reflector, the light spread is quite wild, and I got F11 at 6 feet with the sock on.

Yessir,

I have several of the s-bracket mounts (bowen's & umbrella) for speedlites. I use them with umbrella style softboxes but also with 7" and 10" reflectors. Though I don't have a sock for my 10" reflector. It's really efficient, I know I could get good output from it with a speedlite. But it's still 10 inches compared to a larger source like a 28 inch BD.

My 10 inch reflector is a 65 degree one.

F11 at 6 foot is great. I wonder how that would look on two subjects sitting close though...

By the way, what cap is that? I looked around and all the caps were too small, or grossly to large?

Very best,


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dmward
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Nov 24, 2017 22:21 |  #14

I have a 28” fotodiox B D that’s white. I’ll put it on an s bracket with an 860ll to see what happens.


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Lotto
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Nov 25, 2017 17:40 as a reply to MalVeauX's post |  #15

That cap came with the Godox 12" beauty dish. For doing quick tests, I wrap a white plastic bag around the reflector with some rubber bands, add more free layers if needed :) Can do the same with larger caps.

I tried couple times putting a 22" cap on the 10" reflector loosely, turn it into lantern type ultra wild coverage, was pretty cool.


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28" Beauty Dish Efficiency, Speedlite?
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