Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
Thread started 09 Jan 2018 (Tuesday) 17:38
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Canon 10-18 and DOF button

 
shane_c
Senior Member
648 posts
Likes: 60
Joined Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
     
Jan 09, 2018 17:38 |  #1

For many of my landscape photos when I want to focus to infinity I select the furthest point I want in focus, go to 10x view on the screen, hold in the DOF preview button and manually focus until it is sharp.

Why doesn't this method work on my Canon 10-18 (just got the lens tonight)? It seems to manually focus okay in live view but as soon as I hold the DOF button the manual focus ring no longer works.


Canon 80D - Canon 15-85, Canon 40 STM, Canon 70-200L F4 (non-IS), Canon 400L (5.6), Canon 1.4x II
My Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
     
Jan 09, 2018 22:21 |  #2

shane_c wrote in post #18537412 (external link)
For many of my landscape photos when I want to focus to infinity I select the furthest point I want in focus, go to 10x view on the screen, hold in the DOF preview button and manually focus until it is sharp.

Why doesn't this method work on my Canon 10-18 (just got the lens tonight)? It seems to manually focus okay in live view but as soon as I hold the DOF button the manual focus ring no longer works.

My guess is that STM is interfering with your process. STM lenses are 'focus-by-wire'; AF is only active while you are focusing. Holding the DOF button down must take you out of AF mode.

FWIW, you are using a UWA lens improperly, in my opinion. Focusing at infinity is almost never a good idea; it wastes DOF. For the deepest DOF you can get, dial in the aperture you want first. If it is f/8 or so, focus on something/anything about 4 to 8 feet from the camera (less at 10mm, more at 18mm), then LEAVE THE FOCUS ALONE. Release the shutter. This will get you the deepest DOF available. Google the term 'hyperfocal distance' for more information.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Wilt
Reader's Digest Condensed version of War and Peace [POTN Vol 1]
Avatar
40,106 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 1989
Joined Aug 2005
Location: Belmont, CA
Post edited 3 months ago by Wilt. (3 edits in all)
     
Jan 09, 2018 22:53 |  #3

Bassat wrote:
FWIW, you are using a UWA lens improperly, in my opinion. Focusing at infinity is almost never a good idea; it wastes DOF. For the deepest DOF you can get, dial in the aperture you want first. If it is f/8 or so, focus on something/anything about 4 to 8 feet from the camera (less at 10mm, more at 18mm), then LEAVE THE FOCUS ALONE. Release the shutter. This will get you the deepest DOF available.

^

For example,

  • with APS-C camera and Canon 10-18mm set to 12mm and f/8,
    if the 8x10 print is viewed at 'standard distance' (12"), the viewer with 20/20 visual acuity will see a DOF zone that extends from 4.5' to Infinity when the lens is focused at 9'.
  • with APS-C camera and Canon 10-18mm set to 12mm and f/4,
    if the 8x10 print is viewed at 'standard distance' (12"), the viewer with 20/20 visual acuity will see a DOF zone that extends from 9' to Infinity when the lens is focused at 18'.


IOW, the DOF Preview even in Live View with an UWA is a bit of an unnecessary feature!

You need to give me OK to edit your image and repost! Keep POTN alive and well with member support http://photography-on-the.net/forum/donate.p​hp
Canon dSLR system, Olympus OM 35mm system, Bronica ETRSi 645 system, Horseman LS 4x5 system, Metz flashes, Dynalite studio lighting, and too many accessories to mention

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
     
Jan 09, 2018 23:04 |  #4

Wilt wrote in post #18537581 (external link)
^

For example,
  • with APS-C camera and Canon 10-18mm set to 12mm and f/8,
    if the 8x10 print is viewed at 'standard distance' (12"), the viewer with 20/20 visual acuity will see a DOF zone that extends from 4.5' to Infinity when the lens is focused at 9'.
  • with APS-C camera and Canon 10-18mm set to 12mm and f/4,
    if the 8x10 print is viewed at 'standard distance' (12"), the viewer with 20/20 visual acuity will see a DOF zone that extends from 9' to Infinity when the lens is focused at 18'.


IOW, the DOF Preview even in Live View with an UWA is a bit of an unnecessary feature!

Thanks for the numbers, Wilt. Sometimes real life tells a more compelling story.

A few years back, I bought a Rokinon 14mm f/2.8 lens. A buddy berated it for not having AF, or even a confirmation light activator. To counter his argument, I told him I could shoot ANYTHING with this lens and NEVER have a focus issue. I mounted that lens on whatever full frame camera I was using at the time, and spent an entire day on a college campus. I put the lens on f/8, focused at 3' (IIRC, maybe 4'), and left it there. I shot well over 100 photos. Subjects included flowers up close (2' ?) and long shots down the 'green' (maybe 1500 yards). Everything, in every photo, was acceptably in focus.

AF on UWA is redundant at best, and actually gets in the way more than it is useful.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
shane_c
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
648 posts
Likes: 60
Joined Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
     
Jan 10, 2018 03:35 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #5

Thanks! It's my first UWA lens. I've heard that DOF isn't an issue with UWA lenses but was curious why it wasn't working. The method I mentioned above has served me well with both my 17-50 and 70-200 when shooting landscapes. I'll give your suggestions a try today. Thanks again.


Canon 80D - Canon 15-85, Canon 40 STM, Canon 70-200L F4 (non-IS), Canon 400L (5.6), Canon 1.4x II
My Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ejenner
Goldmember
Avatar
3,602 posts
Gallery: 66 photos
Likes: 470
Joined Nov 2011
Location: Denver, CO
Post edited 3 months ago by ejenner. (2 edits in all)
     
Jan 14, 2018 17:23 as a reply to  @ shane_c's post |  #6

Instead of trying something completely different when your method has worked for you, how about doing what you are doing, then just back off from infinity a tad. Then using DOF preview check that both infinity and the nearest subject are as sharp as you expect.

DOF is always potentially an issue. But I guess it depends how you shoot or how picky you are because plenty of people don't seem to have an issue. I have examples of shooting a fisheye at f22 and still having the background blurred. Also, 'within DOF' is not necessary 'acceptably' or 'optimally' sharp enough for everyone.

For landscapes I would very much advise going with a focusing method that you work out for your style of shooting. There are a bunch of different methods that work well for different people and mine actually depends slightly on the lens I'm using, because they all have slightly different characteristics.

Good to know about STM lenses though.


Edward Jenner
5DIII, 7DII, M6, GX1 II,M11-22, Sig15mm FE,16-35 F4,TS-E 17,Sig 18-250 OS Macro,M18-150,24-105,T45 1.8VC,70-200 f4 IS,70-200 2.8 vII,Sig 85 1.4,100L,135L,400DOII.
http://www.flickr.com/​photos/48305795@N03/ (external link)
https://www.facebook.c​om/edward.jenner.372/p​hotos (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
shane_c
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
648 posts
Likes: 60
Joined Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
     
Jan 15, 2018 05:53 |  #7

Had the chance to take some pictures yesterday with the lens. I'm not very impressed with it. It's not overly sharp and the DOF doesn't seem very deep even at F8-10 when shooting landscapes. I miss not being able to focus as I normally do.

I was going to return it yesterday only to find out that I am past the 15 day return period, despite me just getting it in the mail 5 days ago (ordered it online 19 days ago). The store told me to call today and talk to the manager. I'll try a few more test shots today since the light will be better as yesterday was gray.


Canon 80D - Canon 15-85, Canon 40 STM, Canon 70-200L F4 (non-IS), Canon 400L (5.6), Canon 1.4x II
My Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
     
Jan 15, 2018 06:11 |  #8

shane_c wrote in post #18541210 (external link)
Had the chance to take some pictures yesterday with the lens. I'm not very impressed with it. It's not overly sharp and the DOF doesn't seem very deep even at F8-10 when shooting landscapes. I miss not being able to focus as I normally do.

I was going to return it yesterday only to find out that I am past the 15 day return period, despite me just getting it in the mail 5 days ago (ordered it online 19 days ago). The store told me to call today and talk to the manager. I'll try a few more test shots today since the light will be better as yesterday was gray.

Very odd post, IMHO. You mentioned infinity focus at the beginning of this thread. You can't maximize DOF by focusing at infinity. Using HYPERFOCAL DISTANCE will get you the most DOF possible.

DOF is NOT lens specific. It depends on your focal length and aperture, ONLY. Wider lenses at narrower apertures give HUGE DOF. If you dial in f/8 @ 14mm, and focus at 5', EVERYTHING from 2.5' to infinity will be in focus. Dial in f/8 @ 18mm, and focus at 8', EVERYTHING from 4' to infinity will be in focus. At f/11 @ 10mm, focus at 3' and EVERYTHING from 1' to infinity will be in focus. Data obtained here: http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html (external link)

Autofocus, especially on a lens this slow, just gets in the way of taking landscape photos. Set your camera to f/8, focus at 5', AND SHUT OFF THE AUTOFOCUS. Zoom all you want, nearly everything you point your camera at will be in focus. You can shoot all day like this and NEVER have to re-focus your lens.

There is a learning curve to effectively using UWA lenses. Hyperfocal distance is your friend.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
shane_c
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
648 posts
Likes: 60
Joined Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
     
Jan 15, 2018 07:08 |  #9

Bassat wrote in post #18541216 (external link)
Very odd post, IMHO. You mentioned infinity focus at the beginning of this thread. You can't maximize DOF by focusing at infinity. Using HYPERFOCAL DISTANCE will get you the most DOF possible.

Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure how my post was odd. Maybe I was calling it the wrong thing. Perhaps the method I mentioned in my first post is setting the hyperfocal distance, either way I can’t focus the same way with this lens as I’m used to. Even on a lens that has the distance marks I know you can’t just put it to the infinity mark.

DOF is NOT lens specific. It depends on your focal length and aperture, ONLY. Wider lenses at narrower apertures give HUGE DOF. If you dial in f/8 @ 14mm, and focus at 5', EVERYTHING from 2.5' to infinity will be in focus. Dial in f/8 @ 18mm, and focus at 8', EVERYTHING from 4' to infinity will be in focus. At f/11 @ 10mm, focus at 3' and EVERYTHING from 1' to infinity will be in focus. Data obtained here: http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html (external link)

I realize that wide lenses have a larger DOF. But what I was saying is that even though I was stopping down and focusing at something a few feet away I did not find that the rest of the image was adequately sharp (i.e. a shallower DOF than what I would have expected), compared to doing the method I mentioned in my first post with my 17-50 or 70-200.


Canon 80D - Canon 15-85, Canon 40 STM, Canon 70-200L F4 (non-IS), Canon 400L (5.6), Canon 1.4x II
My Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
Post edited 3 months ago by Bassat.
     
Jan 15, 2018 08:07 |  #10

shane_c wrote in post #18537412 (external link)
For many of my landscape photos when I want to focus to infinity I select the furthest point I want in focus
...

There is NEVER a good reason to focus an UWA lens at infinity. Less than never if you are after DOF.

shane_c wrote in post #18541233 (external link)
Thanks for your reply. I’m not sure how my post was odd. Maybe I was calling it the wrong thing. Perhaps the method I mentioned in my first post is setting the hyperfocal distance, either way I can’t focus the same way with this lens as I’m used to. Even on a lens that has the distance marks I know you can’t just put it to the infinity mark.


I realize that wide lenses have a larger DOF. But what I was saying is that even though I was stopping down and focusing at something a few feet away I did not find that the rest of the image was adequately sharp (i.e. a shallower DOF than what I would have expected), compared to doing the method I mentioned in my first post with my 17-50 or 70-200.

There is NEVER a good reason to focus an UWA lens at infinity. Less than never if you are after DOF.
Focus method has nothing to do with DOF. So your old method doesn't work. Big deal. Isn't it RESULTS you are after?
DOF too shallow? If you can use this lens to get EVERYTHING from 2' to infinity in focus, I can't figure out what 'too shallow' even means.

Example below. 6D @ 12mm & f/8. It is HARDER to get deep DOF on FF than it is on crop. I focused on the solid blue hat sitting on the aisle. The red-dot blue hat is 3-4' from my camera. The Irving Park Apartment building (tallest, center field) is over a mile from my camera. Both are in focus. Period. Not 'adequate', not 'good enough'; they are IN FOCUS.

I had the 10-18. It isn't this wide, but it is more than capable of this shot.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
shane_c
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
648 posts
Likes: 60
Joined Mar 2007
Location: Halifax, NS, Canada
Post edited 3 months ago by shane_c.
     
Jan 15, 2018 09:22 as a reply to  @ Bassat's post |  #11

If you can use this lens to get EVERYTHING from 2' to infinity in focus, I can't figure out what 'too shallow' even means.

That's the problem. I CAN'T. Even when I stop down and focus on something a few feet away, as mentioned by you and others, the amount that is actually in focus seems quite limited IMO.

I'll try a few more shots today since the light is a lot better than yesterday.


Canon 80D - Canon 15-85, Canon 40 STM, Canon 70-200L F4 (non-IS), Canon 400L (5.6), Canon 1.4x II
My Instagram (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DreDaze
happy with myself for not saying anything stupid
Avatar
17,797 posts
Gallery: 19 photos
Likes: 1558
Joined Mar 2006
Location: S.F. Bay Area
     
Jan 15, 2018 18:16 |  #12

Bassat wrote in post #18541268 (external link)
There is NEVER a good reason to focus an UWA lens at infinity. Less than never if you are after DOF.

i think it works well when you're taking pictures of stars...


op post some pictures...with exif intact, they help more than anything...and then of course there's the old question on if you have a filter on the lens


Andre or Dre
gear list
Instagram (external link)
flickr (external link)
my 366 for 2016 (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
     
Jan 15, 2018 23:36 as a reply to  @ DreDaze's post |  #13

I concede. I don't do stars.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Archibald
You must be quackers!
Avatar
5,918 posts
Gallery: 163 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 5858
Joined May 2008
Location: Calgary
     
Jan 16, 2018 00:42 |  #14

shane_c wrote in post #18541297 (external link)
That's the problem. I CAN'T. Even when I stop down and focus on something a few feet away, as mentioned by you and others, the amount that is actually in focus seems quite limited IMO.

A few feet away is too close. Try 10 ft away.


Pentax Spotmatic F with 28/3.5, 50/1.4, 50/1.8, 135/3.5; Canon digital gear
C&C always welcome.
Picture editing OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bassat
"I am still in my underwear."
Avatar
7,502 posts
Likes: 2513
Joined Oct 2015
Location: Bourbon, Indiana - USA
     
Jan 16, 2018 02:13 |  #15

Post a shot that you think is too narrow dof.


Tom,
Film gear: Elan 7NE / Elan 7 / EOS T2
Yashica FX-D (x2) & FX-3 Super 2000 / DSB 28mm f/2.8 / 50mm ML f/2 / 135mm ML f/2.8 / Sigma Zoom-gamma II 21-35mm f/3.4.2 / Yashica ML 28-85mm f/3.5-4.5 / Tokina 70-210mm ML f/4.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

3,300 views & 2 likes for this thread
Canon 10-18 and DOF button
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.0forum software
version 2.0 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is insurfr
691 guests, 334 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.