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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Critique Corner
Thread started 20 Jan 2018 (Saturday) 06:56
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TheSandValor
Hatchling
9 posts
Joined Jan 2018
Jan 20, 2018 06:56 |  #1

Hi,
Today was my first time experiencing with an all Manual DSLR camera.
My little brother was preforming in his first theater show.
And as expected the images didn't turn out that well... My question is why.
Both photos were taken with
Canon EOS Rebel T6i | Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 | 1/640 | f/10 | ISO-25600

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joedlh
Cream of the Crop
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Joined Dec 2007
Long Island, NY, N. America, Sol III, Orion Spur, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Cluster, Laniakea.
Post has been last edited 29 days ago by joedlh. 2 edits done in total.
Jan 20, 2018 08:12 |  #2

The first problem is the expanse of white wall. It fooled your light meter into underexposing the shot. The light meter thinks everything should be 18% gray. That's exactly what it tried to do. When you see a situation like this, increase the exposure by 1/2 to one f-stop. The other issue is ISO 25600. That contributed to the overall noise or graininess and color dappling. Since you shot at a distance f/10 was overkill. You didn't need that much depth of field. Also 1/640; There was no need to freeze any action, was there? If you shot at 1/125 and f/5.6, you would have been able to lower your ISO.


Joe
Gear: Kodak Instamatic, Polaroid Swinger. Oh you meant gear now. :rolleyes:
http://photo.joedlh.ne​texternal link
Editing ok

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bob_r
Goldmember
Joined Aug 2006
Cordova, TN
Jan 20, 2018 08:20 |  #3

TheSandValor wrote in post #18544963 (external link)
Hi,
Today was my first time experiencing with an all Manual DSLR camera.

I'm not sure if I'm reading your intent correctly, but while you can set the camera to manual, it does have other options.

Joe (previous post) offered some good advise.


Canon 7D, 5D, 35L, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 135L, 200L, 10-22, 17-55, 70-300, 100-400L, 500D, 580EX(2).
Sigma 150 macro, 1.4X, 2X, Quantaray 2X, Kenko closeup tubes, Yongnuo YN685(3), Yongnuo YN-622C-TX. Lots of studio stuff.
** Image Editing OK **

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TheSandValor
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
9 posts
Joined Jan 2018
Jan 20, 2018 08:38 |  #4

Thank you for the explanation :)

There was a lot of movement in these shots so i was afraid that it would be blurred, furthermore, the theater was dark so i didn't want my shots to be underexposed (although it happened anyway..)

What speed is fine for moving?

Is it like a rule to keep ISO as low as possible? I started reading "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson and he suggests to keep the exposure at f/5.6. Why then he suggests doing that if i need to keep my ISO low to reduce noise?

Could it be edited to make the noise disappear ? I tried using Corel PaintShop Pro 2018 but had no luck...




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bob_r
Goldmember
Joined Aug 2006
Cordova, TN
Jan 20, 2018 09:05 |  #5

TheSandValor wrote in post #18545001 (external link)
Thank you for the explanation :)

There was a lot of movement in these shots so i was afraid that it would be blurred, furthermore, the theater was dark so i didn't want my shots to be underexposed (although it happened anyway..)

What speed is fine for moving?

Is it like a rule to keep ISO as low as possible? I started reading "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson and he suggests to keep the exposure at f/5.6. Why then he suggests doing that if i need to keep my ISO low to reduce noise?

Could it be edited to make the noise disappear ? I tried using Corel PaintShop Pro 2018 but had no luck...

They're not moving as fast as you may think. 1/125s would probably have been fast enough to freeze the action.

f/5.6 would allow you to keep everything in focus when shooting at 35mm. f/10 gives you more depth of field, but you really didn't need that much, while shooting at f/5.6 would allow you to reduce your ISO almost 2 stops with the same exposure. Reducing your shutter speed would allow you to reduce it even more.

Photoshop has some good noise reduction, but shooting with a much lower ISO setting would have been a better solution.


Canon 7D, 5D, 35L, 50 f/1.4, 85 f/1.8, 135L, 200L, 10-22, 17-55, 70-300, 100-400L, 500D, 580EX(2).
Sigma 150 macro, 1.4X, 2X, Quantaray 2X, Kenko closeup tubes, Yongnuo YN685(3), Yongnuo YN-622C-TX. Lots of studio stuff.
** Image Editing OK **

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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
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Joined Sep 2008
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Jan 20, 2018 09:08 as a reply to TheSandValor's post |  #6

The lower the ISO, the less noise, the better the image quality, so yes, try to keep the ISO as low as possible.

Different types of movement require different shutter speeds. When I photograph a swallow in flight I like a shutter speed of at least 1/2000s. But a foraging blackbird needs less than half that. But that's in ideal conditions. If light doesn't allow these speeds, you start to compromise: open the lens, lower the shutter speed, increase ISO. For me usually in that order.

I don't know how well your lens performs wide open, but if you had opened the aperture to f/5.6 and lowered your shutter speed to 1/200s or even a bit less, you could have lowered your ISO by some 3 stops to 3200 and that would have given you significantly better image quality.

Here's an excellent beginner's guide on the exposure triangle. Well worth the read. https://photographylif​e.com/what-is-iso-in-photography (external link)


Levina
Please quote when responding to a post!!!
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TheSandValor
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
9 posts
Joined Jan 2018
Jan 20, 2018 09:27 |  #7

Thank you all for the help :D

And thank you for the guide, it really is very helpful :D




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PhotosGuy
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Middle of Michigan
Jan 20, 2018 09:40 |  #8

That huge white background could have been very helpful. Look at steps 1-3 in Need an exposure crutch?

If you read further on, the thread should help you with most of your exposure problems.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.

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s1a1om
Senior Member
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Joined Jul 2013
Hartford, CT, USA
Post has been edited 29 days ago by s1a1om.
Jan 20, 2018 09:49 |  #9

As another poster above alluded to, depth of field (how big a range is in focus) is related to the aperture, focal length, and distance to the subject. The exact relationship is non-trivial, but you can get an idea from the calculator below.
http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html (external link)

For example, using the 35mm focal length in your first photo at f/10, if you focused on an object (person) 25 feet away from the camera, everything would be in focus from 11.4 feet in front of the camera to a distance infinitely far away.

Take the aperture down to f/5.6 as someone above suggested with the exact same scenario and you would still get everything in focus from 15 feet in front of the camera to 74.7 feet away from the camera. Way more than enough for that scene.

Also, rather than going straight to manual mode, try both aperture priority (AV) and shutter priority (TV), if you haven't already. It's rare that you need to be in a completely manual mode. Play around with the exposure compensation in each of those modes and figure out where you may like to change that from zero (hint: night time and snow are two examples)


Constructive criticism is always appreciated.

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drmaxx
Senior Member
Joined Jul 2010
Jan 20, 2018 09:51 |  #10

Just to complement the other great advice: Under these circumstances I just would have gone for Tv and start with 1/125, have the exposure compensation up and let the rest float. This gives you a good starting point. Also: Don't be too afraid of low shutter speeds. Having some movement in the frame makes nice dynamic pictures.


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Levina ­ de ­ Ruijter
I'm a bloody goody two-shoes!
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Joined Sep 2008
Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Jan 20, 2018 09:53 |  #11

s1a1om wrote in post #18545060 (external link)
Also, rather than going straight to manual mode, try both aperture priority and shutter priority (if you haven't already). It's rare that you need to be in a completely manual mode. Play around with the exposure compensation in each of those modes and figure out where you may like to change that from zero (hint: night time and snow are two examples)

I strongly disagree with this. A beginner should always be in manual mode to learn to properly expose his/her photos. Use a semi-automatic mode if you must only when you know your stuff and it's convenient, but not because you don't know how to do it yourself.


Levina
Please quote when responding to a post!!!
There is no such thing as ect. It's etc. (with period) from latin et cetera.
Colours are not complimentary but complementary.
My flickr (external link)

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PhotosGuy
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75,053 posts
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Jan 20, 2018 09:58 |  #12

Levina de Ruijter wrote in post #18545063 (external link)
I strongly disagree with this. A beginner should always be in manual mode to learn to properly expose his/her photos. Use a semi-automatic mode if you must only when you know your stuff and it's convenient, but not because you don't know how to do it yourself.

I agree. The OP is already willing to use Manual, & suggesting that he start chasing the needle with exposure compensation in a simple situation like this one is just taking a big step backwards.


FrankC - 20D, RAW, Manual everything...
Classic Carz, Racing, Air Show, Flowers.
Find the light... A few Car Lighting Tips, and MOVE YOUR FEET!
Have you thought about making your own book? // Need an exposure crutch?
New Image Size Limits: Image must not exceed 1280 pixels on any side.

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texkam
"Just let me be a stupid photographer."
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1,160 posts
Joined Mar 2012
By The Lake in Big D
Post has been edited 29 days ago by texkam.
Jan 20, 2018 10:04 |  #13

I strongly disagree with this. A beginner should always be in manual mode to learn to properly expose his/her photos. Use a semi-automatic mode if you must only when you know your stuff and it's convenient, but not because you don't know how to do it yourself.


^ Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes! Been waitng for someone to tell a noobie this.




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texkam
"Just let me be a stupid photographer."
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1,160 posts
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By The Lake in Big D
Jan 20, 2018 10:14 |  #14

Unlike film, pixels are free. If you're learning, take some time and shoot trying the difference exposure choices mentioned above. You'll find out just how slow you can go, or how thin a DOF you can get away with. We old film shooters also didn't have the opportunity to chimp. Nothing wrong with chimping as you shoot.




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s1a1om
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Joined Jul 2013
Hartford, CT, USA
Post has been edited 28 days ago by s1a1om.
Jan 20, 2018 13:56 |  #15

PhotosGuy wrote in post #18545069 (external link)
I agree. The OP is already willing to use Manual, & suggesting that he start chasing the needle with exposure compensation in a simple situation like this one is just taking a big step backwards.

I vehemently disagree. It's good to know the general relationship between all the variables, but there's no need to select all three manually. I started my foray in DSLRs setting everything manually. Then I realized what a waste of time it is and that a good photographer sets their gear in a way that allows them to capture the image they want most easily. In many cases that's AV or TV.

If you care primarily about depth of field, set the camera to aperture priority and let it figure out the necessary shutter speed. If there's a white background or it's on snow, dial in a little +EC. If it's night time or a black background dial in -EC. If you want the water in a waterfall to blur or a propeller to blur, set it to shutter priority. When using a strobe with a max sync speed of 1/200, I find TV to be most convenient.

As for learning, knowing what each control does separately (in AV or TV) makes combining them infinitely easier.


Constructive criticism is always appreciated.

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