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FORUMS General Gear Talk Computers
Thread started 20 Jan 2018 (Saturday) 14:47
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Computer Build Advice Needed

 
Pinto
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Joined Jan 2005
Idaho
Jan 20, 2018 14:47 |  #1

It’s time to upgrade a desktop editing machine and I need some advice. I’m older and haven’t kept up with the current technology, particularly relating to solid state drives.

This is my proposed system configuration:

Dell XPS 8930 i7-8700K
64GB, 2666MHz, DDR4
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 with 8GB
1TB PCIe x4 SSD + 2TB 7200RPM HDD

I know some of this is probably overkill, but it wasn’t much more money, so I just went to the top.

My questions are:
I’m assuming from what I’ve read that the OS should be on the SSD drive. Will Dell normally put it there, or do I have to instruct them?

Secondly, I also assume Photoshop, other programs and scratch disks should also be the SSD. I have always partitioned large disks to keep programs, OS, scratch disks and data files separate from each other. This has worked very well for me. Can one partition solid state disks? What is the current thinking on this?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for your help.




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BigAl007
Cream of the Crop
Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Jan 21, 2018 06:19 |  #2

Yes Dell will put the OS on the SSD for you, well they did on my i7 6800 XPS8900 back in summer 16. I wouldn't bother with partinoning the SSD, from what I believe it won't make a lot of difference. 64 GB RAM is I think real overkill, but if you can afford it why not.

Your 1 TB on the SSD will be plenty for the OS Programs and even allow you to have Lr and Bridge running large image caches on the SSD. I had to move my Lr catalogue and previews to my internal HDD as they were filling up my 256 GB SSD. The upgrade to the 2018 version of Lr caused problems when it attempted to create the new version's .lrcat file, and duplicate the full set of previews. This managed to completely fill the SSD, and took a bit of sorting out. Turned out there was a rogue lock file left behind that stopped both the old catalogue opening in the old version, or from attempting to restart the conversion process. So now the catalogue is on the HDD, and I have a comfortable 70 GB free on the SSD, with just OS and programs on that drive. I was really surprised at how quickly it seems to have filled up.

Alan


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Hannah'sDad
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Allen, TX
Jan 21, 2018 07:50 |  #3

HannahsDad wrote in post #18486914 (external link)
Just replaced my stock HP Pavilion 810-330qe with a custom build. I was lucky enough to get one of the first I7-8700K processors. My specs:

Motherboard: ASUS Z370-E
Processor: Intel I7-8700K
RAM: Corsair Vengeance LED 32GB 4 x 16GB DDR4-3200 (64GB total)
SSDs: 3 x 1TB Samsung EVO 840 (for data) and one 250GB Samsung EVO 850 for Operating System
Video: ASUS STRIX GeForce 1070
Optical Drives: HP CH30L and an LG WH16NS40 (BluRay Burner)
Monitors: HP 27xi (x2), both on HDMI
Power Supply: EVGA 750W G2 Gold
Operating System: Windows 10 Pro (64 Bit)
Case: Corsair 230T
Backups: IO Safe G3 3TB and IO Safe G3 6 TB (USB 3.0)
UserBenchmark: http://www.userbenchma​rk.com/UserRun/5635475 (external link)

It's a screamer, now. I run Photoshop CC, Lightroom Classic and Adobe Premiere Pro. No gaming (no time!)

Scott

Just to throw my two cents in, I would also make sure that it has an ample power supply and cooling. When I built mine from scratch, I used a 750 Watt power supply because of the CPU cooling and power needs of the video card. As far as cooling goes, I went with a liquid cooler and have been very pleased. I don't overclock, so I don't have to worry about overheating my core temps. Also, if they have a BluRay burner option, I would get it. Finally, remember that you can "point" your links to your documents, videos, pictures, etc, to a location other than what the default is. I have all of my data on separate hard drives and when I click on "Documents" it opens up the folder on my third SSD drive. There is a great explanation of doing this at https://www.pcworld.co​m ...e-drive-or-partition.html (external link).

Finally, if you do decide to tweak it to overclock the processor or memory, there is a great little utility called "UserBenchmark", available at http://www.userbenchma​rk.com/ (external link), so that you can see how your PC stacks up against others AND so that you can make tweaks to it and see if it really helps.

Just my opinion on a new build. It's worth what you paid for it, so if you don't agree with parts of it, I completely understand. But, like you, I overbuilt in anticipation of using this machine for a while. Also, with the new video card, you may want to consider getting a 4K monitor. I did and love them. Good luck in your plans!

Scott


Scott
Canon 5D Mark IV Gripped x 2, Canon "L" EF 11-24mm f/4L USM, Canon "L" EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, Canon "L" 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM, Canon "L" 200mm-400mm f/4 EXT, Canon "L" EF 600mm f/4L IS II USM, EF 1.4X III Extender (x2), EF 2X III, plus various other tripods, filters and bags

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Pekka
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Post has been last edited 1 month ago by Pekka. 3 edits done in total.
Jan 21, 2018 08:06 |  #4

Pinto wrote in post #18545294 (external link)
It’s time to upgrade a desktop editing machine and I need some advice. I’m older and haven’t kept up with the current technology, particularly relating to solid state drives.

This is my proposed system configuration:

Dell XPS 8930 i7-8700K
64GB, 2666MHz, DDR4
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 with 8GB
1TB PCIe x4 SSD + 2TB 7200RPM HDD

I know some of this is probably overkill, but it wasn’t much more money, so I just went to the top.

My questions are:
I’m assuming from what I’ve read that the OS should be on the SSD drive. Will Dell normally put it there, or do I have to instruct them?

Secondly, I also assume Photoshop, other programs and scratch disks should also be the SSD. I have always partitioned large disks to keep programs, OS, scratch disks and data files separate from each other. This has worked very well for me. Can one partition solid state disks? What is the current thinking on this?

When you have 64GB RAM you do not need any scratch disks, really.

SSD does not need any partitioning.

SSD in theory wears out faster if you use it for temp or cache (small files written very often), but the practical difference is not worth a mention. There are torture tests in the net: https://techreport.com ...eriment-theyre-all-dead/2 (external link)

I have had by Samsung EVO 960 NVM since summer and it has about 5 TB written so far. So if it in theory fails after 1000 TB, I can to keep on using it for 100 years.

I would not put in a HDD at all. Get a couple of Samsung 1GB EVO 850 SSD's internally and then something like T5's externally when you need more storage. A HDD will eat all the benefit of having a fast and silent PC, and for backups external drives are much safer.

Consider Windows 10 Professional, it lets you defer automatic updates / reboots. Protects your unsaved work. Disabling non-forced updating for Home edition won't work any more.

If you do not primarily play games, get a GTX 1060 instead of 1080, fast enought and you can make it silent up to 75 degrees/C (with MSI afterburner utility), again contributing to a silent PC, which is in my opinion a must for a good working environment.

I have built my own PC from scratch (always have, done about 15 now), latest one has

Windows 10 Pro
be quiet! Dark Power Pro 11 850W power supply
be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 3 CPU cooler
be quiet! Silent Wings 3 140mm PWM air coolers (3)
Fractal Design Define S windowless case
Intel i7700K
Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 3200 ram (32GB)
ASUS ROG Strix Z270E Gaming motherboard
ASUS Geforce STRIX 1060 6GB
Samsung EVO 960 512Mt M.2 for system stuff + dev data (virtualbox)
2 other SSDs internally
Lots of external USB3 drives
Sound comes out from Steinberg UR22mkII to Sennheiser HD600's.

This system is totally quiet without heating up even when playing games. And very fast, too.

Consider building your own PC, it is both fun and educational, and you'll know exactly what you get :)


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Pinto
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Joined Jan 2005
Idaho
Jan 21, 2018 11:39 |  #5

Thank you all for your responses and helping me get up to date on current builds.

Pekka, I was also going to ask about the Windows Home vs Professional. Are there any other advantages to Professional?

I do no gaming. This system is still image and video editing only. Please tell me more about the video card issue. Noise is a non-issue for me. I have such severe hearing loss that a diesel powered system wouldn't be a problem. LOL. With no gaming, is there any other disadvantages to the GTX 1080 vs 1060 other than noise?

I've always like the idea of building a system from scratch, but it is not a currently feasible project for me.

Thanks again.




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Pekka
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Hellsinki, Finland
Jan 21, 2018 12:39 |  #6

Pinto wrote in post #18545808 (external link)
Thank you all for your responses and helping me get up to date on current builds.

Pekka, I was also going to ask about the Windows Home vs Professional. Are there any other advantages to Professional?

https://www.microsoft.​com/en-us/windows/compare (external link)

There are some business-related features in Pro, but one is potentially a userful one from home use: remote desktop (you can use your Windows from other computers via net): https://www.groovypost​.com ...emote-desktop-windows-10/ (external link)

I do no gaming. This system is still image and video editing only. Please tell me more about the video card issue. Noise is a non-issue for me. I have such severe hearing loss that a diesel powered system wouldn't be a problem. LOL. With no gaming, is there any other disadvantages to the GTX 1080 vs 1060 other than noise?

1080 is faster in games and also bit faster if you use GPU accelerated functions in Photoshop/LR (see http://www.nvidia.com ...t/adobe-lightroom-cc.html (external link)). Else they are pretty much the same.


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Pinto
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Idaho
Jan 21, 2018 13:54 as a reply to Pekka's post |  #7

Thank you for your help, Pekka.




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-dave-m-
Senior Member
Joined Sep 2011
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Jan 21, 2018 15:37 |  #8

Unless you game or use a GPU for heavy video editing or computation power you are basically throwing away money on a 1080. For photo editing any basic GPU is enough, in Lr enabling GPU acceleration can sometimes actually cause the system to be slower.


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EverydayGetaway
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Bowie, MD
Post has been edited 1 month ago by EverydayGetaway.
Jan 21, 2018 17:06 |  #9

-dave-m- wrote in post #18545993 (external link)
Unless you game or use a GPU for heavy video editing or computation power you are basically throwing away money on a 1080. For photo editing any basic GPU is enough, in Lr enabling GPU acceleration can sometimes actually cause the system to be slower.

Especially with the current GPU market... mining is making GPU's stupid expensive right now.

I'm tempted to sell one of my GTX 980 Ti's since I can sell it for over double what I bought it for right now :eek:


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davesrose
Title Fairy still hasn't visited me!
3,132 posts
Joined Apr 2007
Atlanta, GA
Jan 21, 2018 17:24 |  #10

EverydayGetaway wrote in post #18546050 (external link)
Especially with the current GPU market... mining is making GPU's stupid expensive right now.

I'm tempted to sell one of my GTX 980 Ti's since I can sell it for over double what I bought it for right now :eek:

Making mining no financial sense. More people are mining, reducing any potential revenue, and driving computational speed and electricity requirements up. Better sell your 980 now, before the bubble bursts:-) Though if I were buying a new card, and it wasn't for my main 3D/video/ workstations, I would look for HDR features (just a personal preference for UHD...and both models being considered are new enough to support it).


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EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
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Hannah'sDad
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Allen, TX
Jan 21, 2018 21:29 |  #11

Pekka wrote in post #18545846 (external link)
https://www.microsoft.​com/en-us/windows/compare (external link)

There are some business-related features in Pro, but one is potentially a userful one from home use: remote desktop (you can use your Windows from other computers via net): https://www.groovypost​.com ...emote-desktop-windows-10/ (external link)

1080 is faster in games and also bit faster if you use GPU accelerated functions in Photoshop/LR (see http://www.nvidia.com ...t/adobe-lightroom-cc.html (external link)). Else they are pretty much the same.

Another potential benefit to going with Pro is the ability to use the Group Policy Editor. Even if it is a single PC, I know I have utilized the editor to make system level changes that are not available with the Home edition.


Scott
Canon 5D Mark IV Gripped x 2, Canon "L" EF 11-24mm f/4L USM, Canon "L" EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, Canon "L" 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM, Canon "L" 200mm-400mm f/4 EXT, Canon "L" EF 600mm f/4L IS II USM, EF 1.4X III Extender (x2), EF 2X III, plus various other tripods, filters and bags

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Pinto
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Idaho
Jan 22, 2018 10:44 |  #12

HannahsDad wrote in post #18546200 (external link)
Another potential benefit to going with Pro is the ability to use the Group Policy Editor. Even if it is a single PC, I know I have utilized the editor to make system level changes that are not available with the Home edition.

Interesting. And there are no drawbacks to Pro? Thanks.




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Hannah'sDad
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Allen, TX
Jan 22, 2018 11:29 |  #13

Pinto wrote in post #18546480 (external link)
Interesting. And there are no drawbacks to Pro? Thanks.

Not that I am aware of. I have five PCs on my home network, three laptops and two desktops. One of the laptops is strictly used as a printserver. All of them are running 10 Pro and I have been very pleased with the stability. If it's an option in your build, I would definitely put it on there.


Scott
Canon 5D Mark IV Gripped x 2, Canon "L" EF 11-24mm f/4L USM, Canon "L" EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM, Canon "L" 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM, Canon "L" 200mm-400mm f/4 EXT, Canon "L" EF 600mm f/4L IS II USM, EF 1.4X III Extender (x2), EF 2X III, plus various other tripods, filters and bags

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Pinto
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Jan 22, 2018 13:20 |  #14

HannahsDad wrote in post #18546521 (external link)
Not that I am aware of. I have five PCs on my home network, three laptops and two desktops. One of the laptops is strictly used as a printserver. All of them are running 10 Pro and I have been very pleased with the stability. If it's an option in your build, I would definitely put it on there.

Thank you. Yes, it's just a $64 add.




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EverydayGetaway
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Jan 22, 2018 14:09 |  #15

Pinto wrote in post #18546623 (external link)
Thank you. Yes, it's just a $64 add.

Much less than that if you shop around.

www.kinguin.net (external link) or even ebay, cheaper fully legal Windows 10 codes can be found in a number of places.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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