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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Performing Arts Talk
Thread started 12 Oct 2006 (Thursday) 12:38
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STICKY: Concert Photography Tips: A FAQ Perhaps

 
DwightMcCann
so, what are we talking about?
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Oct 12, 2006 12:38 |  #1

Many of the other forums seem to have threads devoted to the most often asked questions very similar to a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) so I thought it might be useful here. I see the same questions asked and answered over and over which is time consuming and boring and hope we can circumvent some of that. I don't really know the best format so I thought I'd just lay out some musings and see where it goes. Please, do not post questions into this thread ... it is for answers! :-)

If you really want to maximize your learning then just start reading the concert related posts cover to cover starting almost anywhere and proceeding through the forum. For newbies to concert photography it is likely that you will find your own questions or questions that you will soon ponder have been answered repeatedly. Many of the posts will give references to other material including websites and Photoshop actions and tutorials. Please Note: some threads get tedious and can be ignored and some threads get contentious and should be avoided. If you run into someone who seems to always be an irritant or always finds some fault or insult or issue where none is intended please note that there is an "Ignore List" feature at POTN ... just go to the UserCP area and block that person's userid. It is amazing how just two or three ids in your Ignore List can brighten your whole POTN experience. :-)

If you really want to maximize feedback and critique then start by using a meaningful title. Titles like "My First Concert" or "My First Submission" or "Newbie: C&C Please" are pretty off putting and useless. Try something like "Butterfingers & Twinkletoes @ Wrinkleford on Thames: Critique Please". In general having the artist/band/performer and the venue in the title is optimal. It also makes it easier for others who may have or will soon shoot the same act or place to find information.

For best feedback post five to eight images as close to 1024 pixels on the long side as you can manage ... bigger images are much easier to look at and appreciate. You can embed two hosted at POTN but you would be better to link (meaning they are at your own website somewhere) the whole eight. Provide links to websites with additional images. Just posting a link to a webpage with a zillion almost identical images and saying, "I wanted to show everything" tends to get a cool response, too. Explain what is going on. Also go to the UserCP page and turn Image Editing OK so that others can edit your images and repost to show you how they would do something.

To increase the amount of feedback/comments you get, do at least two things: (1) Make commenters feel welcome ... acknowledge criticism as valuable even if you disagree with it and don't whine that you wanted some other type of advice ... no one here is paid to be your therapist! :-) If someone comments on your thread in a way that offends you, take responsibility for your half ... perhaps you were whining that there were 3333 views and no comments and they felt sorry for you, but don't just attack them. It does no good to say, "Only 13% of your words addressed the issues I wanted you to comment on and 63% were just drivel." If you want comments then you have to accept that they are not all going to be exactly what you want. Don't be so OCD! Relax! People here are trying to be helpful but we all have bad days. (2) Go out of your way to comment in as many other threads as possible. It is lame to say, "I am not expert enough to make a comment" or "I'm only here to learn, not offer advice." It comes across as sounding like you feel entitled to mentoring just because you showed up ... and you aren't. And you can always just say how you like the images someone else has slaved over to produce.

Ask specific questions. Questions like, "How could I do better?" tend to generate thoughts like, "By not posting!" But something like, "Are there tricks for dealing with stage smoke?" or "What lens do most use for this type of concert?" will bring out the most experienced to offer suggestions, particularly if you make it clear you have already gone looking through posts using the search facilities provided. Or better yet, find posts with images/techniques you like and ask specific questions about how they were done, what equipment, what post processing, what the lighting was like ... anything that you would like to emulate.

Don't whine about not getting any comments! I posted a picture of my wife yesterday in the G&N forum. There have been 1,293 views and ZERO comments. I did get one indirect comment from a guy because I posted in another guy's thread that I didn't think his portrait was glamor to yet another person and this guy felt utterly compelled to comment on my comment because my picture wasn't glamor ... even though I had explained why I had posted it. Please don't be a thread monitor, at least not until you have a lot of experience with the people involved ... we have moderators who are the only authorized "Hall Monitors" and you'll look like an idiot defending someone who hasn't asked for you to be their white knight. [Note: I often get PMs asking me to look at a particular thread and comment when I have time ... if you have made friends here at POTN you might try that tactic until you run out of friends because you keep nagging them! :-)]

Try not to be a Wuss: It serves no useful purpose for you to take any comment as a personal attack ... really, chest butting in a thread or sending PMs to people about how they hurt your feelings or how you think they ought to act reflects more on your issues than on whatever insult you think they have committed. 99.99% of the time you don't know the offender personally or have a sense of their background or style but even if they are BAD PEOPLE it really doesn't matter. This is the Internet and you should just let these little upsets go ... they are really infantile on your part regardless of what was done! If someone does something bad, contact a moderator or sue them, but keep it off the threads. Please don't others what they can and cannot say, what terms/phrases they may use and other "your preference" policing. If you have a preference, state it, but don't dictate or "guilt" others to use your particular brand of PC.

Where are you? It often helps to know where you are: Chicago or Liverpool or Vuulputtenfarber? [Sorry Olli, Kalle and Rene!] There are big cultural differences and it helps to know them.

What equipment do you have?
It would do no good for me to say, "Use your 300mm f/2.8L IS in this situation" if you don't have one. We have a special Gear List thread where you can Reply and list your gear ... there are hundreds of examples. You can then edit your signature to put in a link ... look at my signature for an example. Notice that it is a special kind of 'one post only' link rather than a link to the whole thread.

EXIF metadata is optimal. If you don't know what this is then do a Google search or read my Q&A ... you need to know about it. It is the data that the camera injects into your image documenting the ISO, shutter speed, camera type, lens information, aperture, etc., so we know what you did.

By now you probably want some specific suggestions
so here we go:

  • In low light shoot with fastest ISO you have. You need to know what your camera can do. We have forums that can help immensely with this.
  • If you shoot in low light a lot and only have the kit lens then you need to consider getting the 50mm f/1.8 for around $75USD.
  • Don't cut off the guitar heads.
  • Use a tripod or monopod with bigger lenses.
  • FACES, Faces, faces. People are about faces.
  • Minimize flash, but if you have to use it, learn all the fancy techiques from bouncing off the back wall or your white shirt to "Shutter Drag" techniques.
  • Sharpen after resizing.
  • Learn how to do Custom White Balance even if you shoot RAW.
  • Learn about RAW. But don't obsess about it ... I made my first $100,000 shooting just jpegs, so if someone gets on their high horse about RAW just ask them how much cash they've made?

To others interested in this idea I have no sense of ownership. I would be happy to have this thread deleted and a newer and more organized one started. I would be happy to have anyone add their own tips, trick, suggestions. I would be unhappy to have religious arguments about "Legends", "RAW", Canon vs Nikon or other chest butting.

Dwight McCann
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How I Got Into This Businesshttp://photography-on-the.net ...p?p=13157388#post13​157388

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tommykjensen
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Oct 12, 2006 13:41 |  #2

Good idea Dwight. I will stick this thread for You. And if the thread needs cleaning up to keep it as informative as possible just PM any moderator.

EDIT: I have deleted the off topic posts that served no purpose in this thread. If you don't can or don't want to contribute to this effort then don't post.


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René ­ Damkot
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Oct 13, 2006 07:27 |  #3

Some more thoughts:
- When posting multiple images: Number them. Makes giving critique a little easier.
- Don't be to worried about noise. Try shooting Tmax 3200 once. Really puts things in perspective ;)
- Crop images. Get the subject out of the center of the frame.
- It might be nice to put in a link to the bands website (if any) for those curious for their music. (When you would like to know weather they sound as good (or bad :p) as they look)


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kmb
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Oct 14, 2006 04:44 |  #4

Okay, let's see if I can give any helpufl advice...

These all are from a Finnish perspective (not that it matters for most of the advice).

1. Getting credentials/photo pass/permissions
- Ask from the band. Where I live, nobody pays for web-size pictures in gallery form (perhaps web advertising would be another case). It just does not happen. So I usually just give away the web gallery sized pictures to the artist (it is of course one way of advertising my services) in exchange of a photo pass.
- Ask from the festival/concert organizer
- Think of yourself as a professional, even if you are not. What words would a professional use when trying to get the credentials? If you come out as a fan-hobbyist, the person at the other end might think that you're perhaps more interested in other things than photogrpahy
- As soon as possible create a (good) web portfolio. Pay attention to presentation, post processing and sharpening. Link this porfolio forward. Before you have this, you should practice with small bands
- Mention that you're not going to use flash, that you'll pay special attention to not to annoy the artist or audience (if these are true)
- DO NOT give away full size professional pictures for "any usage" for free. You'd be eating somebody else's bread. You should get fair compensation.

2. (Mental) perparation
- Think what the band is about. What's their thing? What are they good at? Then think how to capture that. For instance, if it's heavy metal, you definitely want to get some intensive ("angry") expressions, energy, sweat. If it's a girl band with beautiful girls, you might want to watch for smiles, sweet or tender moments.

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

- If you can, take a look at the band's live performances on videos before the gig. See if you can find any interesting moments, mannerisms or some such that you'll want to photograph. You might encounter a Déjà vu moment in the concert!

3. Minding the performer and audience
- Don't be on the artists face
- Wear black. It's the least distracting color. If it's an indoors gig, you'll blend into the darkness
- Don't use flash, unless absolutely necessary (99,5% of the cases it isn't), or unless you've gotten a permission from the band for that
- Be friendly to the security personell. Help them in simple matters.
- Remember that the concert is not for you. It's for the paid audience who are there to enjoy the gig. They're the kings. Of coures, if you have a job to do, you have to make sure you get the shots.

4. General guidelines for choosing angles, compositions & such
- Don't take close-ups of the performers' faces from a steep angle below them. All you'll see is nostrills
- Don't take wide angle shots of women performers. It often doesn't look wery flattering
- Mind the background! unwanted clutter in the background will result to medicore pictures at best. Wach for smoke. When it starts to approach the performer from behind, It'll provide a very clean backdrop.
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


To Be Continued.

- Kalle
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René ­ Damkot
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Oct 17, 2006 04:07 |  #5

Some good tips.
Another one: Set your camera to Tungsten for WB. This is the main light source after all. Don't be to worried about skin tones being of; those color gels are there for a reason ;)
Alternatively, use K and set color temp to 2800 to 3400K depending on taste and front light color. (use 2800 when dominent 'warm' and 3400 when dominant 'cool' lighting is used.)
In some instances a CWB might be the way to go.
Shooting RAW can be usefull as well.

Some thoughts on post processing:
For resizing images for web use: Take a look at this Photoshop actionexternal link. I find it to be very nice (with a little modification)
Take care of your channels. In concert photography very often colored lighting is used, and it's *very* easy to blow out a single channel.
A remedy can be found hereexternal link, or you can use photoshops 'channel mixer'. Take a look here for an example.
Also: A USM of about 15%; radius 150; threshold 0 can be a nice way to 'cut through haze'.


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

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gcobb
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Memphis, TN
Nov 13, 2006 22:05 |  #6

If you really want to maximize your learning then just start reading the concert related posts cover to cover starting almost anywhere and proceeding through the forum. For newbies to concert photography it is likely that you will find your own questions or questions that you will soon ponder have been answered repeatedly. Many of the posts will give references to other material including websites and Photoshop actions and tutorials.

My computer career began partly because I read what others had to offer. In the same aspect, I've read in here since April. I've picked up a lot of good info, did trial and error and I think I have improved greatly as a result.

If you see conflicting opinions, remember that part of it may just be preference. Try both and see what works for you.


Canon 30D - Tamron f/2.8 28-75 - Canon 50mm f/1.4 - 85mm f/1.8 - Canon 70-200 f/4 - Canon 430ex - Slik Pro 330dx Legs - Slik Ball Head 800 - Vivitar, Novatron, Alienbee And a partridge in a pear tree

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johnstoy
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Dec 01, 2006 07:05 |  #7

A simple method to help Critique posted photos:

I find it is convenient to view the photos side by side, while writing (typing) the actual critique...Therefore:

Open a second and identical web page, side by side...

Fit it to half the screen size vertically for the convenience of viewing the pictures...the second identical web page, should also be sized to half the screen size vertically and positioned side by side...

Now you can scroll the pictures down and up for review and re-review...while typing the critique side by side...

This will produce a lot more of a comparative opinion... hopefully in a complimentary, constructive and positive way.

John


John Stoy

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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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Jan 23, 2007 23:22 |  #8

It is pretty clear that image excellence is half or less of the key to success. As important or more important are connections. You need to get to know people: band members, management, record label people, promoters, venues, lighting directors, audio directors, DJs from radio stations or other radio personalities, bar managers, program managers, talent buyers and anyone associated with the type of shooting you want to do. Network!

Whenever I am in a shooting situation where I may interact or be introduced to people I keep a small stack of my business cards (yes, get some business cards and a website) in my front left pocket. When I reach out to shake hands (I always reach out to shake hands) with my right hand I pull a business card out of my left pocket and pass it over. I am fortunate in that I am not looking for work, so I always say, "I am not looking for work but I have a lot of great images on my website." These two things really seem to make people happy and relaxed. If I get a chance I say that I am "as good as it gets." After all, I am not asking them for anything and they can look at my images and decide for themselves. And to cut you off early, no, I am not better than a lot of folks here on POTN or elsewhere, but I can deliver stunning images over and over and over without a lot of excuses ... I may have to ask Rene, or Kalle, or Richard, or someone else for help but I can deliver. Work hard until you can deliver every time.

When I am shooting a concert I look for the most intensely dedicated fans. When I find them I walk over, introduce myself (which gets them my business card that I pull out of my left front pocket as I shake hands with them) and say, "In a week or two my images from this concert will be on my website and you are welcome to take them for personal use." This promotes both the talent and me. People love it! The guy with the big lenses sees that they are special and wants to share with them. Making people feel special is always a good thing. It is good for your karma and good for your reputation. Build a great reputation and they will come! Often these fans will be the ones who are running websites ... this can lead to opportunities to peddle images!


Dwight McCann
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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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Mar 09, 2007 18:35 |  #9

The question of pricing often arises and can be tricky to try to answer, so I judge it best to refer folks to online pricing guides for freelance photography. Since I noted one for the UK for ShesGotThePic I thought I'd start a post in here for them. If others have URLs we can always consolidate if you will add a post.

UK: http://www.londonfreel​ance.org/feesguide/pho​to.htmlexternal link
USA:http://www.d-65.com ...graphersonly/pricin​g.htmlexternal link

Thanks to POTN member Dansumption I am also adding a link to an explanation of how freelance rates are calculated. It is UK based, as is the first link above, but the conversion is simple and the rationale provided quite clear and concise.

UK: http://www.londonfreel​ance.org/feesguide/phd​aytxt.htmlexternal link

And since I am subscribed to the following thread I should also mention an ongoing discussion of pricing located at http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=61210 that is long but well worth the read.


Dwight McCann
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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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Apr 25, 2007 18:45 |  #10

Since I removed the link to my 'Talking About Photography' Q&A about what I do from my signature block I am going to post it here: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=81761 ... read it until you get bored.


Dwight McCann
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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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May 01, 2007 18:45 |  #11

Links Mentioned by Rene:

Sharpening:
http://www.aim-dtp.net ...s/usm/better_than_u​sm.htmexternal link
http://fc01.deviantart​.com ...Web_Sharpening_Acti​on.pdfexternal link

Clipped Channels
http://www.luminous-landscape.com ...als/restore-clipped.shtmlexternal link

Resizing
http://www.deviantart.​com/deviation/29038461​/external link

Digital Watermark Branding and a Slew of Other Amazing PS Tips and Tricks
http://www.russellbrow​n.com/tips_tech.htmlexternal link


Dwight McCann
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narlus
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May 01, 2007 19:00 |  #12

i'd add this one as well, very good advice for blending exposures:

http://www.thelightsri​ghtstudio.com/...dExpo​sures.movexternal link


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blackshadow
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May 04, 2007 23:22 |  #13

lanifornia wrote in post #3153881external link
hi- bringing my canon digital rebel to an outdoor live concert tomorrow (starting at about noon) with many bands (Bamboozle)
i know some basics but want advice from experienced photographers on how to get some good shots!
ANY TIPS ARE APPRECIATED-
composing the shot, camera settings, etc
i'll post any pictures that turn out next week after the show...

It's a little hard to give advice on camera settings without knowing the conditions you are shooting in, the lenses you are using etc.

I don't know how large the venue is you are shooting; if you have pit access or not etc.

Generally when I shoot outdoor gigs they are pretty big events so I generally whack the 70-200 f2.8 on and don't change it. If it is a smaller event I usually use a 24-70 f2.8. I adjust aperture and ISO accordingly and try to keep my shutter speed above 1/125 or 1/160 for outdoor gigs.

If you are shooting from the crowd you will probably need a longer lens to make the most of it.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your results posted in the forum.


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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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May 22, 2007 11:47 |  #14

Jerry Klein just pointed out that we don't have a link for the Opanda browser plug-in that allows you to see EXIF and IPTC data in your browser, so here it is: http://opanda.com/external link! This is a MUST HAVE for photographers and is FREE!


Dwight McCann
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DwightMcCann
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so, what are we talking about?
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May 26, 2007 15:49 |  #15

Multiple Camera Time Synchronization: if you shoot with two or more bodies (I often use four these days and soon to be five) and put all images together, say in a folder, and would like to have them sorted into the order in which they were taken; or, if you shoot the same event with several photographers and merge the images and wish to see them in chronological order, here's a tip I got from Chris Fritchie: hook each camera up to the same computer and set the time using the 'use computer time' feature of the EOS Utility. You can then sort the images (in most programs) by the times they were shot. I now do this before renaming so that the sequence numbers are in chronological order. [Note: I have discovered that there is substantial clock skew in my bodies so I have to resync them about every week.]

Prior to using this clever tip I would have all the 300mm f/2.8 images, then all the 70-200mm f/2.8 images and then all the fisheye images clumped together. If I saw something in a 70mm frame that I wanted to see if I had something with the 300mm I had to hunt through images to find it ... now they are all grouped together and it is pretty simple. And it is a much more logical way to do culling.

I know not a lot of us have multiple bodies, but more and more of us are shooting the same events and as we all get richer and more famous because we are learning so much from POTN we will have more bodies.

Edit: I have learned that camera clocks slip a lot. Since I trade bodies back and forth pretty intensely for ten or fifteen minutes even a few seconds can screw up the order so I urge doing the time sync thing before each event.


Dwight McCann
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Gear List - Concert FAQ - My Small Studio
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Concert Photography Tips: A FAQ Perhaps
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