My little Rant

[ssim]

This is my little rant so please take it for what it's worth.

Yep, I've got this thing tomorrow with 28 models, they'll all be buck naked but please help because I don;'t want to screw up.

Over the past few weeks I've seen many a poster that says "Just got my new lens/flash/whatever and I have a big shoot tomorrow" Can you help me learn how to use it.

Now I know that there are a lot of people here that would dearly love to make their living in this industry, but come on, what self respecting photographer is going to grab a piece of equipment and go out on a paying shoot the very next day or two without wrapping their mind around how the equipment functions properly. If you are only putting the part in about the shoot to make yourself feel good or important and so that you get quick help, spare us the details.

I used to do weddings and commercial work many years ago in 6X7 format and I would have never gone out without first knowing that everything worked as it was supposed to and I knew exactly how to use it properly. Now I do photography for the pure pleasure.

As has been raised so many times, please do a search on the board, just about everything has been covered in some aspect. If you can't find your answer then ask.

Flame away!!!!

[IanD]

Yep, I’ve got this thing tomorrow with 28 models, they’ll all be buck naked but please help because I don’t want to screw up.

I have to learn to read the entire post. I thought that Sheldon had something happening in my back yard and I did not get an invitation.
Geez...28 models all buck nekid...almost had a heart attack.

Ian

[GenEOS]

Many post a note up here before they shoot something they have not shot before. If I were a wedding photographer with 20 years experience, only shooting weddings....then that experience won't do me a hill a beans, if I were to have to go shoot a NASCAR race.

Would you not be interested in what another photographer has to lend for advice on shooting something you have not shot before? Or are just going to keep your nose up in the air and proceed in your own direction? What if someone was to lend you a piece of advice that might keep you from looking like a moron. I digress....

I do agree that some do post things that are a little far fetched. That is because most that post those things a new to the forum and/or are new to digital EOS shooting. Many are stepping up from poit and shoots.

I will defend the less knowledgable on this thread, because that is what this forum is all about.

[mpkirby]

Originally Posted by ssim

This is my little rant so please take it for what it’s worth.


Over the past few weeks I’ve seen many a poster that says “Just got my new lens/flash/whatever and I have a big shoot tomorrow� Can you help me learn how to use it.

That's like going to a college professor and asking a question, and getting a response like. "Have you checked the school library? I'm sure that topic was covered there sometime in the last 100 years".

Half the fun of a board like this is learning things together. In real-time, without delving into vast quantities of research. It's about forming relationships and understanding what people are doing today, not yesterday.

My sense is that there isn't a topic that has been discussed on this board that isn't covered in one of a miryad of photography books somewhere. Why bother posting at all? Why not just go buy a bunch of books. Any of us that can afford a 1500 dollar camera, can certainly afford 100 dollars in books to teach us how to use it.

Tell me. other then "Canon has a new XXX out", and "Canon service sucks", what kinds of posts are reasonable?

Mike

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by mpkirby

Tell me. other then "Canon has a new XXX out", and "Canon service sucks", what kinds of posts are reasonable?

Mike

There are several:
1. My10D front focuses (similar to 'My 10D back focuses)
2. I just bought my 10D. It's my first SLR. What lens should I buy?
3. Anything to do with Gitzo, the 3-legged donkey
4. Posts like. "I see a website advertising the Rebel for $319.00. Is PHOTOSCAM of Brooklyn a good company?"
5. Petitions for firmware upgrades.
6. Any mindless survey on irrelevant subjects.
7. "Which is better? The 550EX, or a '58 Ford?"
8. "My Rebel fell off the roof of my car. It now rattles a lot and doesn't seem to work. Any suggestions?"

And so on.

The simple truth is this: everyone is welcome here, regardless of their level of competence. If a question is inane, repetitive, or something that’s already been covered ad nauseum, a simple link to an FAQ or an older thread solves the problem easily, and doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings.

We are blessed by having in our midst a group of people with considerable knowledge in a number of areas which, to us neophytes, can only be described as extremely esoteric at best. The fact that they are willing to share any of their knowledge, much less so willingly don the role of teacher in an unruly class, makes them an asset to be much appreciated.

Very simply, to me there is no subject out-of-bounds. If it’s not appropriate to this board, the moderator will move the thread or kill it. If it’s really strange, it will either be ignored, or more likely, kicked around like an old can in a parking lot by every person in the forum with something smart to say. In that regard, the forum is self-correcting. It is also self-perpetuating. For the most part, the questions are sincere, and the answers are informative and fair. The ‘newbies’ will rapidly become knowledgeable members of this board, and will eventually take their turns at responding to questions. It’s the circle of life, I guess. (this should be read to music).

Thos.

[ilya]

I had some to add to Thos' list, but instead I will

A) create a new governing body and set of policies called "GAFT ("Generally Acceptable Forum Topics"),

and

B) I'll just post Dave's Top Ten Reasons George W. Bush Wants To Put A Man On Mars


10. Dick Cheney needs a new undisclosed location

9. It's part of his "No Planet Left Behind" initiative

8. Great deal on the off-season airfare right now at Expedia.com

7. Maybe we'll find some weapons of mass destruction there

6. We've run out of places on Earth to drill for oil

5. Hoping to get Mork's autograph

4. We cannot back down until the people of Mars hold free elections

3. Dude, free Mars bars

2. Why not? It's not like we have an enormous debt or failing economy

1. Pete Rose bet him we wouldn't do it

[CyberDyneSystems]

Originally Posted by belmondo

There are several:
1. My10D front focuses (similar to 'My 10D back focuses)
2. I just bought my 10D. It's my first SLR. What lens should I buy?
3. Anything to do with Gitzo, the 3-legged donkey
4. Posts like. "I see a website advertising the Rebel for $319.00. Is PHOTOSCAM of Brooklyn a good company?"
5. Petitions for firmware upgrades.
6. Any mindless survey on irrelevant subjects.
7. "Which is better? The 550EX, or a '58 Ford?"
8. "My Rebel fell off the roof of my car. It now rattles a lot and doesn't seem to work. Any suggestions?"

And so on....
Thos.

ROFLMAO! I love this guy!

Photoscam of Brooklyn Thats where I reserved my 1DRebel Magnum in brite stainless!!!!


//even though he just caused me to spit coffee on an allready aged notebook!

[mjordan]

Forum posters are just like a pack of dogs. The young pups run around, nipping and jumping, bumping into the old dog that just wants to lay in the sun and snooze. Finally, after about the 10th time a young pup run into him, he'll rear up, show some teeth and growl. At which the young pup will cower down and roll over and promise never to do that again. But pups have short memorys, so after a little while they start running around again... at first staying clear of old sleeping dog... but then they forget and eventually once agin start bumping into and jumping on the sleeping old dog. So once again, he rears up, shows some teeth, grows at the poor quivering puppies, who promise never to do that again.

And eventually, the puppies soon learn to watch what they do around the old sleeping dog... about the time it's their turn to lay in the sun and sleep all day.


So a newbie posts the same question for the hundreth time and some old timer will rear up, bare their teeth and grow at the newbie... and they roll over and promise to never ask another question that's been asked before.



Mike
Mike

[Belmondo]

Life as a newbie can be a bitch.

Strictly in canine terms, of course.

[ilya]

Its the Circle of Life

Not to be confused with the Circle of Confusion (1/Resolution Factor)

[ssim]

Ok, I feel duly chastised. I was trying to make two very serious points.

1. Don't go out on a shoot if you don't know your equipment well enough to have the confidence in it and yourself. I doubt that anyone would garner enough information off of here in such a short time frame to give them that confidence. Bottom line, IMO, is that you only gain this through actual practise.

2. From a personal perspective, I really tire on the "help me choose a new lens" question. There have been a significant amount of them. (must be close to tax refund time). I was simply trying to emphasize the fact that there is a great deal of this same information available in the search function.

I realize that it much easier to ask than search and try and filter through the results.

[neil_r]

I just woke up Grrrrrr

N

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by ssim

Ok, I feel duly chastised. I was trying to make two very serious points.

Nobody's chastising you, and your points are adequately made. You're just articulating a frustration that many of us feel after seeing the same or similar questions come up over and over again.

I just can't think of any way of eliminating them, or even significantly reducing them, without killing the spontaneity and friendliness of this group. As long as we don’t have to respond to the questions we consider unworthy, then we shouldn’t be bothered by them.

[Sketcher]

My Little non-Rant

As a good little forum member I do my obligatory relevancy search to ensure no one has posted the identical question. My interest of the moment is in properly exposing snow and snow element images. Having saved a bookmark from a previous search on exposure and reading one’s histogram I again re-read Luminous Landscape’s “understanding your histogram� and then note having a few more bookmarks linking to more in-depth histogram detail (reading for another time).

1. I perform a search on [Exposure Compensation and Snow]. Eighteen results are displayed and I begin reading through them; noting that quite a few really don’t pertain to my particular bent. 2. Learning how to use the search function a little better I force the search for “all terms� rather than the default “any� and am then left with seven results.

Gleaning as much information as I can about shooting in snow from the seven posts regarding the above mention; I find that even though well addressed – those posts just don’t seem to nail it for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m learning quite a bit from them. However, I’m not shooting sports, studio high-key, using a S400 or G1 so It’s become slim pickin’s. Photography itself is essentially the same regardless of camera so being the responsible person I am, they all get read.

I get easily sidetracked by a [virtual] argument about whether or not there is a perfect histogram. A segue which wasn’t on the map steers me headlong into a tangent search on dynamic range because it was referred to in one of the posts as being limited in current digital capability as opposed to film (though quite similar in range to slide film). I now have a better understanding of Dynamic Range and the rave review of the Fuji S3 over in FM now makes more sense to me.

An hour later I find my way back home and now have quite a bit of new understanding under my belt. Though the answering wasn’t specific, I now have a better grasp on the kind of shooting I would like to do and will try out some new settings the next time I’m out. FYI: I’m a “do it in the field� kind of guy (yes, that’s an open door for humor). By that I mean I prefer to get the image as right as possible in camera/glass and perform as little post processing as possible. I’m a Network Admin and PC hobbyist so this photography obsession is really my only self-interest break away from a computer screen (and I find it quite liberating).

So I’ve learned a little. I’ve been responsible in the process and have not limited my searching to one forum, topic or thread. I had time to study and more importantly, without pressure can try out what I've learned. I still feel strangely unfulfilled however. Sort of as if the learning experience though valuable wasn’t quite validated being that I didn’t share it with anyone or feel as though anyone actively ‘taught’ me the ropes.

And that last paragraph sums it up for me. Why would I post yet another “how do I shoot in snow amidst 28 nekid trees� when it’s been done before? I do it because of community, communication and appreciation of correspondence, my enjoyment of talking about “Me�, my interests, showing people that I’m learning and to have someone personally give me guidance. That’s why I would post my version of “yet another newbie question�. I do try to avoid the many pitfalls of being ignorant, but sometimes for all the above reasons and then some more, there I go. I really don't make it all about "me", but I confess there's that element.

Admittedly, many of the owners of “yet another� posts haven’t done their homework and don’t even browse the first page for posts of relevant topic. In that light the onus is then on our shoulders to not insult ourselves by becoming indignant after willfully clicking on the post and reading more of the same. It takes more effort and anguish to respond harshly then it does to direct kindly. As a forum moderator who was been involved in the significant growth of another forum I vouch for the more healthy fertilizing capability of kind direction over “RTFM�. Communities stagnate in growth when only the “never been done before� posts are welcomed. The better direction can be taken from HAM Radio etiquette; that is to simply not respond or acknowledge traffic which does not recognize appropriate behavior.

**NewsFlash** And this just in!! I received an e-mail from the guys I happened to shoot while stopping down at the lake today. We're getting some fresh snow and they'd like to know if they could hire me to shoot some action photo's of them with their sleds down at the lake... They know I'm an amateur but figure I can do better with my gear than they can with their digicam so they'd like me to meet them tomorrow if I'm free. Crap, I don't have time to try out all the reading I've just done and I don't want to show up tomorrow and have it be a waste of time for those guys. I'll shoot it just for the opportunity and they can pay me if I get some good shots but, but,... where can I get some quick answers on optimal settings or obvious pitfalls to avoid!!?? I know, those guys over in the Canon Digital Photography Forums know what they're talking about!! I'll stop in over there .

[Bubber Jones]

You should try to admin a forum with a large precentage of the membership being teenagers and another large percentage being adults acting like teenagers...

I think everyone has it pretty easy around here...

Just my $0.02... That and $8.97 will get you a small coffee at Starbucks. Take it for what it's worth.

DM