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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 21 Feb 2007 (Wednesday) 09:18
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Photo solutions response on using Eclipse fluid with EOS400D....

 
svpworld
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Feb 21, 2007 09:18 |  #1

Further to the recent concerns over using swabbing with eclipse solution on the EOS400D with its Indium Tin Oxide coated sensor, I contacted photographic solutions to ask them about their new E2 solution and also compatibility of the original solution with the Canon EOS400D.
EOS400D users may want to consider using the new solution instead of the original liquid, I will continue using my original eclipse solution only for my lenses and order the E2 should I ever need to swab my sensor again!

Response from Photo solutions.....

The E2 is a different formula the the Eclipse and is recommended by the makers of cameras with TI coated sensors. We have not found a problem using the Eclipse, but we do not know the long tern effects. Your camera does have a TI coated sensor. You may want to get a bottle of E2 to be safe.
Hope this helps,
Joel
PSI



On Mon, 19 Feb 2007 22:24:04 -0000, Simon Williams wrote
> I have just noticed you have released a new cleaning solution for so called Tin oxide sensors, E2. I own a Canon 400D and have been so far using your normal eclipse cleaner and swabs. I wanted to ask what the difference is between E2 and your normal solution, what is a tin oxide sensor and why is it different? Also does the Canon 400D have a tin oxide sensor, and if so will the normal solution cause problems?
>
> Many thanks!
>
>
Simon Williams



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evandavies
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Feb 21, 2007 09:21 |  #2

Very interesting.

Thanks for that...


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frank ­ t
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Feb 22, 2007 08:58 |  #3

Unless what I have been reading is incorrect, you are actually cleaning the GLASS covering on your sensor, not the actual sensor surface, so why would this be an issue at all...???




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Doug ­ Pardee
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Feb 22, 2007 11:03 |  #4

frank t wrote in post #2754364external link
Unless what I have been reading is incorrect, you are actually cleaning the GLASS covering on your sensor, not the actual sensor surface, so why would this be an issue at all...???

Unlike most DSLRs, the XTi/400D sensor does not have a glass cover.

Instead of swabbing a glass cover like you are on almost all other Canon DSLRs, on an XTi/400D you're swabbing the dichroic "hot mirror" coating that is applied to the front of the first lowpass filter, which is the "dust shaker". Ordinary Eclipse fluid can remove that coating. Photographic Solutions guarantees that their new "E2" fluid will not harm the coating when used as directed.

Accidental removal of the dichroic mirror coating might go unnoticed for a while. It is used to prevent false color due to the camera's sensitivity to infrared (IR). Most things you shoot don't reflect IR in sufficient quantity to be a problem, but a few things (notably clothing made of some synthetic fabrics) do. To see what IR-caused false colors can look like, scroll about halfway down this pageexternal link, to the comparison photos between a 5D and a Leica M8. The M8 doesn't have a dichroic mirror, and the man's clothing appears purplish when it's not.




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frank ­ t
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Feb 22, 2007 13:44 |  #5

Doug Pardee wrote in post #2754911external link
Unlike most DSLRs, the XTi/400D sensor does not have a glass cover.

Instead of swabbing a glass cover like you are on almost all other Canon DSLRs, on an XTi/400D you're swabbing the dichroic "hot mirror" coating that is applied to the front of the first lowpass filter, which is the "dust shaker". Ordinary Eclipse fluid can remove that coating. Photographic Solutions guarantees that their new "E2" fluid will not harm the coating when used as directed.

Accidental removal of the dichroic mirror coating might go unnoticed for a while. It is used to prevent false color due to the camera's sensitivity to infrared (IR). Most things you shoot don't reflect IR in sufficient quantity to be a problem, but a few things (notably clothing made of some synthetic fabrics) do. To see what IR-caused false colors can look like, scroll about halfway down this pageexternal link, to the comparison photos between a 5D and a Leica M8. The M8 doesn't have a dichroic mirror, and the man's clothing appears purplish when it's not.

Well then...I stand corrected, and further educated!!...Thanks for that info...:lol::lol::lol:




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chevysales
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Feb 22, 2007 17:56 |  #6

Doug Pardee wrote in post #2754911external link
Unlike most DSLRs, the XTi/400D sensor does not have a glass cover.

Instead of swabbing a glass cover like you are on almost all other Canon DSLRs, on an XTi/400D you're swabbing the dichroic "hot mirror" coating that is applied to the front of the first lowpass filter, which is the "dust shaker". Ordinary Eclipse fluid can remove that coating. Photographic Solutions guarantees that their new "E2" fluid will not harm the coating when used as directed.

Accidental removal of the dichroic mirror coating might go unnoticed for a while. It is used to prevent false color due to the camera's sensitivity to infrared (IR). Most things you shoot don't reflect IR in sufficient quantity to be a problem, but a few things (notably clothing made of some synthetic fabrics) do. To see what IR-caused false colors can look like, scroll about halfway down this pageexternal link, to the comparison photos between a 5D and a Leica M8. The M8 doesn't have a dichroic mirror, and the man's clothing appears purplish when it's not.

i wonder if any other of the new canon releases will have this type of setup?

i looked at the E2 stuff at photo sol... but no need yet as i still have the xt... but if and when the 30 replacemnet comes i would be interested to see if they use this same sensor type which will have us all running for E2 :)

they mention the 5 parts per million on the page and i don't recall seeing that mentioned at all for eclipse?

thanks for the heads up and the explanation


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Doug ­ Pardee
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Feb 22, 2007 18:44 |  #7

chevysales wrote in post #2756958external link
i wonder if any other of the new canon releases will have this type of setup?

The 1DmkIII appears to. The arrangement is slightly different, with the IR filter being placed up front (and shaken) rather than the first lowpass filter, but from what I can tell from the White Paperexternal link, the dichroic mirror coating is still at the front and unprotected, same as on the 5D and XTi/400D.

So I would say that Eclipse E2 is the fluid of choice for the 1DmkIII, along with the 5D, XTi/400D, and Sony A100. Other DSLRs should be able to use original Eclipse fluid.




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chevysales
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Feb 22, 2007 20:37 |  #8

Doug Pardee wrote in post #2757204external link
The 1DmkIII appears to. The arrangement is slightly different, with the IR filter being placed up front (and shaken) rather than the first lowpass filter, but from what I can tell from the White Paperexternal link, the dichroic mirror coating is still at the front and unprotected, same as on the 5D and XTi/400D.

So I would say that Eclipse E2 is the fluid of choice for the 1DmkIII, along with the 5D, XTi/400D, and Sony A100. Other DSLRs should be able to use original Eclipse fluid.

thanks doug... i also checked on the original eclipse and see it had the same 5 parts per mil comments that e2 has.

btw... great white paper read.


D700 paired with 24-70 f2.8; 70-200vr f2.8 capped off by B+W MRC fPro UV filters, B+W Kaesemann Circular Polarizers, Manfrotto 055xprob/488rc2. All comfortably carried with Kata R102 backpack... adding as needed :>;) yep sold my canon gear and switched to the dark side :p

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Glenn ­ NK
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Mar 10, 2007 12:21 |  #9

http://www.photosol.co​m/documents/MSDS%20-%20E2.pdfexternal link


When did voluptuous become voluminous?

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SWPhotoImaging
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Mar 15, 2007 10:15 |  #10

Doug Pardee wrote in post #2757204external link
. . . . the dichroic mirror coating is still at the front and unprotected, same as on the 5D and XTi/400D.

So I would say that Eclipse E2 is the fluid of choice for the 1DmkIII, along with the 5D, XTi/400D, and Sony A100. Other DSLRs should be able to use original Eclipse fluid.

I had no idea that my 5D was this way. I'll have to change cleaning methodologies right away.

So, is this E2 solution widely available?

edit: Just ordered a bottle of E2 from my usual source (Micro-Tool)


SWPhoto-Imaging

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svpworld
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Mar 17, 2007 10:26 |  #11

I'm still not convinced that original Eclipse fluid will harm Indium Tin Oxide sensors. As far as I can see, Eclipse original is pure methanol... which is the cleaning fluid of choice in cleanrooms and film processing (I worked in such an environment for 15 years). I have to admit I have not yet ordered the new E2 solution and recently swabbed my 400D sensor again with standard eclipse solution to get it nice and clean for the arrival of my copperhill brush. I suppose just to feel comfortable I'll eventually get a bottle of E2, and continue using my original eclipse on my lenses... but as for the trouble that the EOS 5D owner originally had, I'm thinking that was probably a result of using a pec pad as opposed to a swab and a bit of maybe too heavy handed polishing (with debris on the sensor creating the abrasive action). I would think any solution used in conjunction with vigorous rubbing of a thin coated film would eventually damage it!


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I ­ Simonius
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Mar 21, 2007 06:56 |  #12

svpworld wrote in post #2886185external link
I have to admit I have not yet ordered the new E2 solution and recently swabbed my 400D sensor again with standard eclipse solution to get it nice and clean for the arrival of my copperhill brush. I suppose just to feel comfortable I'll eventually get a bottle of E2, and continue using my original eclipse on my lenses... but as for the trouble that the EOS 5D owner originally had, I'm thinking that was probably a result of using a pec pad as opposed to a swab and a bit of maybe too heavy handed polishing (with debris on the sensor creating the abrasive action). I would think any solution used in conjunction with vigorous rubbing of a thin coated film would eventually damage it

So is it advisable to get the brush as well? If so why?

thanks

I have a 5D BTW and haven't cleaned it in nearly a year but the time has come and I am trying to decide which way to go... (bites nails):eek:


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SWPhotoImaging
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Mar 21, 2007 09:39 |  #13

For a measley $7 a bottle, which will last for about 500 cleanings, I didn't see any reason not to switch to E2 for my 5D.

Anyone want a bottle of Eclipse with about 490 uses left?


SWPhoto-Imaging

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Glenn ­ NK
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Mar 23, 2007 22:01 |  #14

I bought a 500 ml (1/2 litre) bottle of 99% pure isopropyl alcohol for about $3.99 plus taxes two days ago - it should last a while.;)

Isoprop is one of the ingredients in E2, so it should be safe.:)


When did voluptuous become voluminous?

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svpworld
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Mar 25, 2007 07:06 |  #15

The brush I ordered from copperhill along with their battery powered blower. Quite often it does the job of lifting dust particles from the sensor that a blower will not, and without resorting to swabbing. I wanted only to wet swab if completely necessary, so now I use the blower and then if there are still a few specks that won't budge I'll try the charged brush to lift them. Its also transportable on planes, which the wet swabbing material are not. I am hoping to avoid wet swabbing unless absolutely necessary, but most of all because its so expensive (those swabs are around £2 a throw and I usually end up using 3 of them each time!).


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Photo solutions response on using Eclipse fluid with EOS400D....
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