Greedy Organization?

bcap · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

I have applied and been granted "official photographer" for a really big event here in my area - the Province-wide Basketball Championship's. I had to apply to the Provincial Basketball organization.

In my opinion, they are getting very greedy though. There is obviously nothing I can do about it, as I do not want to lose the event, I am just venting.

They want 15% of GROSS sales AND a CD of some images for promotional purposes.

I don't think I'd be getting any recognition for these images either.

What do you guys suggest? Shoudl I ask for mention whenever the photos are used? Shoudl I provide full-res images? 72dp images?

Davy-Kelly · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

If this is your first "big job" I'd go along with it. It might get your name spread around a bit (although not so much if they wont give you recognition).

Davy

Croasdail · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Up to 20%, but more often 10% is common... so no, they don't sound totally out of line here. If

Davy-Kelly · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croasdail

Up to 20%, but more often 10% is common... so no, they don't sound totally out of line here. If

If...

Hawg Hanner · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

It's all part of negotiating. If you think 15% is too high (along with the rest of the conditions) tell them so. Have you given any indication that you'll accept it? If so, you're probably already dead in the water. If however you haven't had much of a conversation with them since they suggested that amount, you still have a dog in this fight. Also, are you the first person to approach them to do this? Did someone before accept 15%?

If you haven't had any conversations with them about it yet, I would call the up or meet with them and thell them a cut of the action is highly irregular. Often it is either a flat fee, but if they insist on 15% you are either going to have to walk away (remind them no one can do it better and why) or tell them they will have to sweeten the pot a little. Here's how they could make it worth your while:

#1. You have right of first refusal to photograph all future events using the same agreement.
#2. An extreme limit to the number of images they are licensed to have and all other licenses cost X amount of dollars.
#3. Byline and credit on each image used.
#4. Free advertisement in their program or other means (remind them that since they are getting a cut, it is only in their best interest).
#5. Right to photograph all other non-championship provincial events with no cut.

I'm sure you will know of a few other ways they could sweeten the pot. If you think the cut is too high, however, you need to take a stand and walk away. I've seen too many industries where people have 'whored' themselves. Taking a stand is probably in your best interest. If some other organization hears about your 15% cut, they'll wonder why they aren't getting a cut of the action, too.

bcap · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

No, this is not my first event. My business does events all over the place. We typically give 10% to the hosting organization.

The 15% isn't what got my wheels turning, it's the CD of images. I will obviously provide my best photos to show that they are not hiring no amateur, but at the same time, buying those images elsewhere wouldn't be cheap ...

Also, I am no where nearly the 1st photographer they've dealt with. This is the terms they have said I must agree to because this is what they do in the past.

I think my best bet is to ask them for recognition for the photos that's it ... maybe a link on their site.

DocFrankenstein · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

How much sales are you going to be making?

Who's your client?

Croasdail · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davy-Kelly

If...

brain freeze.... sorry

it was something about limited use for internal promotional purposes only.... but what ever. As long as they aren't selling them themselves, I have seen this before. Haven't done it myself because I don't do this kind of stuff often - but have seen it.

Davy-Kelly · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croasdail

brain freeze.... sorry

it was something about limited use for internal promotional purposes only.... but what ever. As long as they aren't selling them themselves, I have seen this before. Haven't done it myself because I don't do this kind of stuff often - but have seen it.

lol, fair enough

bcap · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

It's a provincial basketball organization. My sales will hopefully be anywhere between $1.5-3 thousand for the 2 days of the tournament.

DocFrankenstein · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcap

It's a provincial basketball organization. My sales will hopefully be anywhere between $1.5-3 thousand for the 2 days of the tournament.

Who's gonna buy? I don't get it.

Croasdail · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

You see mommy and daddy bring junior to a basketball tournament.... and the photographer takes these wonderful images that he/she then sales to said mommy and or daddy. Because their kid is just the cutest and most athletic out there, they buy copious images of little darling. It's really not all that new... maybe a little to pedestrian for the cultured of Toronto.... but in many parts some make really good money doing this. I don't do it because I don't like having to deal with precious' mommy.

Davy-Kelly · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croasdail

You see mommy and daddy bring junior to a basketball tournament.... and the photographer takes these wonderful images that he/she then sales to said mommy and or daddy. Because their kid is just the cutest and most athletic out there, they buy copious images of little darling. It's really not all that new... maybe a little to pedestrian for the cultured of Toronto.... but in many parts some make really good money doing this. I don't do it because I don't like having to deal with precious' mommy.

Junior is playing in the tournament right?

Croasdail · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

oh yeah..right.. that would help wouldn't it.

DocFrankenstein · 28th of March 2007 (Wed)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croasdail

You see mommy and daddy bring junior to a basketball tournament.... and the photographer takes these wonderful images that he/she then sales to said mommy and or daddy. Because their kid is just the cutest and most athletic out there, they buy copious images of little darling. It's really not all that new... maybe a little to pedestrian for the cultured of Toronto.... but in many parts some make really good money doing this. I don't do it because I don't like having to deal with precious' mommy.

Oooh...

Ok. Gotcha. For some reason it associated with NBA and somehow it just didn't click how MJ's mommy is going to buy his photos.

My bad

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#6
bcap MR. PP Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 7,364 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? No, this is not my first event. My business does events all over the place. We typically give 10% to the hosting organization. The 15% isn't what got my wheels turning, it's the CD of images. I will obviously provide my best photos to show that they are not hiring no amateur, but at the same time, buying those images elsewhere wouldn't be cheap ... Also, I am no where nearly the 1st photographer they've dealt with. This is the terms they have said I must agree to because this is what they do in the past. I think my best bet is to ask them for recognition for the photos that's it ... maybe a link on their site. __________________ Bryan Bryan Caporicci's Personal Blog Niagara Falls, Ontario Wedding and Portrait Photographer - Bryan Caporicci Photography

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#7
DocFrankenstein Cream of the Crop Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: where the buffalo roam Posts: 10,813	Re: Greedy Organization? How much sales are you going to be making? Who's your client? __________________ I have typed this from Ubuntu. Vent: One lens, two lenses. Advice=what you seek; advise=what we do. Then="at that time" or "subsequently"; than="compared to". Aperture, not aperature. Their="owned by them"; there="at that place"; they're="they are". Its="owned by it"; it's="it is". Your="owned by you"; you're="you are"; ur="primitive".

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#10
bcap MR. PP Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 7,364 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? It's a provincial basketball organization. My sales will hopefully be anywhere between $1.5-3 thousand for the 2 days of the tournament. __________________ Bryan Bryan Caporicci's Personal Blog Niagara Falls, Ontario Wedding and Portrait Photographer - Bryan Caporicci Photography

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#12
Croasdail Cream of the Crop Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6,588 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? You see mommy and daddy bring junior to a basketball tournament.... and the photographer takes these wonderful images that he/she then sales to said mommy and or daddy. Because their kid is just the cutest and most athletic out there, they buy copious images of little darling. It's really not all that new... maybe a little to pedestrian for the cultured of Toronto.... but in many parts some make really good money doing this. I don't do it because I don't like having to deal with precious' mommy.

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#14
Croasdail Cream of the Crop Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6,588 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? oh yeah..right.. that would help wouldn't it.

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#1
bcap MR. PP Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Niagara, Ontario Posts: 7,364 IMAGE EDITING OK	Greedy Organization? I have applied and been granted "official photographer" for a really big event here in my area - the Province-wide Basketball Championship's. I had to apply to the Provincial Basketball organization. In my opinion, they are getting very greedy though. There is obviously nothing I can do about it, as I do not want to lose the event, I am just venting. They want 15% of GROSS sales AND a CD of some images for promotional purposes. I don't think I'd be getting any recognition for these images either. What do you guys suggest? Shoudl I ask for mention whenever the photos are used? Shoudl I provide full-res images? 72dp images? __________________ Bryan Bryan Caporicci's Personal Blog Niagara Falls, Ontario Wedding and Portrait Photographer - Bryan Caporicci Photography

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#2
Davy-Kelly Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Broughton Astley, UK Posts: 215 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? If this is your first "big job" I'd go along with it. It might get your name spread around a bit (although not so much if they wont give you recognition). Davy __________________ "The aim of every artist is to arrest motion, which is life, by artificial means and hold it fixed so that a hundred years later, when a stranger looks at it, it moves again, since it is life" - William Faulkner - www.davykelly.co.uk

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#3
Croasdail Cream of the Crop Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 6,588 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? Up to 20%, but more often 10% is common... so no, they don't sound totally out of line here. If

28th of March 2007 (Wed)	#5
Hawg Hanner User is banned from forums Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 462 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Greedy Organization? It's all part of negotiating. If you think 15% is too high (along with the rest of the conditions) tell them so. Have you given any indication that you'll accept it? If so, you're probably already dead in the water. If however you haven't had much of a conversation with them since they suggested that amount, you still have a dog in this fight. Also, are you the first person to approach them to do this? Did someone before accept 15%? If you haven't had any conversations with them about it yet, I would call the up or meet with them and thell them a cut of the action is highly irregular. Often it is either a flat fee, but if they insist on 15% you are either going to have to walk away (remind them no one can do it better and why) or tell them they will have to sweeten the pot a little. Here's how they could make it worth your while: #1. You have right of first refusal to photograph all future events using the same agreement. #2. An extreme limit to the number of images they are licensed to have and all other licenses cost X amount of dollars. #3. Byline and credit on each image used. #4. Free advertisement in their program or other means (remind them that since they are getting a cut, it is only in their best interest). #5. Right to photograph all other non-championship provincial events with no cut. I'm sure you will know of a few other ways they could sweeten the pot. If you think the cut is too high, however, you need to take a stand and walk away. I've seen too many industries where people have 'whored' themselves. Taking a stand is probably in your best interest. If some other organization hears about your 15% cut, they'll wonder why they aren't getting a cut of the action, too. Last edited by Hawg Hanner : 28th of March 2007 (Wed) at 19:19.

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