Ture meaning of Patriotism and love of country

[IndyJeff]

Now without being political I would like to present to the members here one very brave man.


Pat Tillman




Now some of you overseas may not have heard about this young man. He played in the NFL for the Arizona Cardinals. His contract was up and he declined an offer to return to the team. He choose to be an Army Ranger, making $18,000 a year instead of a 3.6 million dollar contract to continue with the Cardinals. In 2001 he turned down an offer of $9,000,000 from the St. Louis Rams because he wanted to remain loyal to the team who had faith in him and drafted him out of college.

The plaza surrounding the Cardinals' new stadium will be named Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza, the team announced. Tillman's No. 40 jersey also will be retired.
ASU will retire his No. 42 jersey after the 2004 season. It is an honor that has been bestowed upon only four other players in the 107-year-old program's history. ASU also will place his name on the honor ring at Sun Devil Stadium at a game Nov. 13.

I am in awe of a young man who would make the choices he has, giving up the riches and fame for the ugliness of war.
Look at this as I have meant it, a tribute to a fine, talented, brave patriotic individual. Ask yourself, if you were in his position could you have done what he did? Myself, I am not sure but, I doubt that I could have. For that I feel humbled and a slight bit of shame.

Next time someone asks, do you love your country? I will say yes, as any of you would for the love of your country but, I will also add that I know what true love of country really is. Something greater than I can comprehend.

[kb244]

Some people would call him nutz, but some people find a fullfilling lives protecting what they love, than playing the sport they love.

[Zeke]

Patriotism is a ridiculous notion, of which American's are the most embarrasing example.

[henkbos]

Auch Zeke.
Married to an American I sometimes envy and ridicule their patriotism.
Choosing a profession were crazy politicians decide when and where you can be killed to protet their own interest is foolish to me.

[shelbix2020]

zeke, henkbos ... Id watch what you say, I had a few friends overseas and luckily 2 of them made it back safely, although my good friend was diagnosed with bipolar dissorder and another is still over there in the platoon that has suffered most of the losses weve been hearing about on the news and what not .... hes only a year or two older than I [20]
I'm pretty sure most people on the boards here would agree to keep talk like that out of this thread ... go start a new one about political crap, this thread is reserved for a brave man.

[henkbos]

Please indicate any political crap/comment in my post. I can't find any!

[Belmondo]

For the record:

I come from the same part of California as Pat Tillman. I only left there 3 years ago. I lived very near him, and know many of the same people he knew.

I received an email from one such friend on the day Pat was killed. He didn't say anything about 'Pat Tillman, the pro football player', or 'Pat Tillman, the jock who gave up millions'. He only said that an he was an old friend and teammate of his son's from high school, Pat Tillman had been killed overseas, and if I hadn't heard the story on the news first, I would not have made the connection.

This is the appropriate way to remember these soldiers. They were friends, neighbors, sons, and daughters long before they were football stars and war heores. I find it distressing that anyone, no matter how cynical their attitudes about the United States, this war, or any war can say that "Patriotism is a ridiculous notion, of which American's are the most embarrasing example." Are suicide bombers more noble when they choose to die for their beliefs?

But please---I don't want to engage in a discussion on the right or wrong of this war or American foreigh policy. I do want you all to think about the tragedy of a lost life and the impact that has on everyone who ever came in contact with that person.

I don't propose to stifle debate. I only ask that you not disparage this man's sacrifice and by so doing, compound his familly's loss by insinuating that his life was wasted.

Thank you.

Tom

[IanD]

Well said Tom.
Any loss of life is tragic.

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by henkbos

Auch Zeke.
Married to an American I sometimes envy and ridicule their patriotism.
Choosing a profession were crazy politicians decide when and where you can be killed to protet their own interest is foolish to me.

Henkbos:

I'm also married to an American (but then, so is my wife ).

[evilenglishman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/3518887.stm

do you see the irony?

[evilenglishman]

Originally Posted by belmondo

I don't propose to stifle debate. I only ask that you not disparage this man's sacrifice and by so doing, compound his familly's loss by insinuating that his life was wasted.
Thank you.
Tom

This is diffucult to discuss without offending someone.
Some could argue with a point of view that being a soldier, one should expect that dying might be a part of the job.
However I think his choice to do that job is very commendable, regardless of nationality/war/skin colour/sexual orientation/whatever or what my feelings toward any war might be.
Some could argue that his life was wasted as Iraq is in a much worse state than it was previously and that the world isn't any safer because of this. No one can answer this - only time will tell.

I don't think its appropriate for others to make this comment though as this leads to arguments and frustration.

A second point though is that anyone from another country wouldn't have made this post as;
A) It isn't of any relevence to Canon, digital cameras or photography. Yes I know this is "general chat"
B) They don't feel the need to do this - there are many other dead soldiers from various countries. I strongly doubt than anyone outside of the US would have made a post like this on these forums.

[Zeke]

Apologies if I offended anyone with my earlier post. It was made in light of personal circumstances totally uncconected with this forum. It was unwise and unwarranted.

I stand my my opinion, but also respect the right of others to disagree.

Cheers

Zeke

[Belmondo]

Thanks, Zeke. We are all friends here even though we aren't always on the same page politically.

Tom

[IndyJeff]

I love my country and have served in it's military, not in war but, at the end of the VietNam era.

Patriotism is a ridiculous notion, of which American's are the most embarrasing example.

If you think the love of my country, our freedoms and rights is embarrassing then I can only wonder what we have in America that you don't in your country. Why do so many people want to come here and make a new start in life?
When I hear the Star Spangled Banner play, no matter if it is during the Olympics or before a sporting event, I get tears in my eyes. I think of young men rushing the beaches at Iwo Jima and Normandy and of their sacrafices. I think of men in no mans land in WWI. I remember my cousin who died in Viet Nam and a cold day in January 1970 in a cemetary in a small town in southern Illinois as taps played and the rifles fired in salute. I remember the pain I felt standing before the Viet Nam memorial in Washingtin DC and finding his name. That was the first day my sons ever seen me cry, I couldn't hold back the tears. It was as if I was back in that cemetary 30 years ago. I love my country and if my country would call upon me for help today, I would do as my country asked of me.


My intention for starting this thread was not intended for political debate, as I stated in the first paragraph. It was to make people think about what was really important in thier lives and to question themselves about their comittments to it.
If anyone thinks this thread should be deleted, I will do that.

[Belmondo]

Okay, gang. Let's talk about cameras now. This thread isn't going any place where any of us really wants to be. Let's start talking about the things we can agree on instead.

(You know, I've never been in a barroom brawl, but I suspect this is how many of them begin. )