Determining The True Number of Clicks on 1D Series Cameras REDUX

[dfindr]

Sorry for the long post but this has been bugging me for a long time and I would like to get a definitive answer.

Below are readings of click counts on two seperate 1D Mark 1 cameras.

1D-A Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,31766,0,0,0,65535,65535,1
1D-B Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,3131,0,0,0,4,0,1

We need to clear something up for me and probably for many others here. There are various Exif reader programs out there including CANCOUNT, EXIFREAD, and EXIFTOOL which claim to accurately count clicks in 1D series cameras.

CANCOUNT only give you the current number of clicks in the current cycle. If the clicks are past 65535, than the counter starts over at 1 and CANCOUNT would read that as the number of clicks after 65535, and doesn't count the first 65535 clicks giving you a way way to low reading. For example if a camera is checked with CANCOUNT and the click count states 5000, with CANCOUNT you don't know if the camera has 5000 clicks or 70535 clicks.

Now that is ok if you know for certain you have less than 65535 clicks on the camera you are checking. EXIFTOOL works the same way. So how do you know how many times the camera has passed 65535 clicks using these two programs? From what I can tell you can't.

Now EXIFREAD gives you the (0093) line as illustrated above. What I need to know is what the other numbers mean. I have seen it posted on this forum as well as others that the last number in the string, and in the examples above the number "1", means the camera has turned over one time after reaching 65535 clicks. Is this true or not?

I have also read on this forum as well as other that the number after the "18" in the examples above "0", is where the turn over counter would read "1" or "2" or "3" depending on how many times the camera has passed 65535 following a reset. Is this true or not?

The problem is obvious, if the last number indicates the turn over has occurred, than the cameras noted above have 65535 + 31766 and 65535 + 3131 clicks respectively.

If the turnover counter is the "0" immediately after the 18 than these 1D's have 31766 and 3131 clicks respectively. BIG DIFFERENCE when
evaluating used 1D's.

Also does any one know what the other numbers mean? I know the (0093) is a line number, I figure the 3,9 and 18 are exclusive identifiers to the 1D as I have never seen them change when evaluating many used 1D Mark 1's. Each model 1D is different I believe at least it is for the 1D Mark 2. So can someone please fill in the blanks?

Unknown (0093) 3,9 : 18, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H..

A - is the subject of the above question
B - is the click count
C - ??
D - ??
E - ??
F - ??
G - ??
H - is the subject of the above question as well.

Thanks!

[dfindr]

Anyone? Please!

[sports_photog_inmd]

http://www.foxbat.me.uk/myDownloads.php

This was posted on here several months ago. Works on all 1 Series cameras.

[Hermeto]

1D-A Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,31766,0,0,0,65535,65535,1
1D-B Unknown (0093)3,9 : 18,0,3131,0,0,0,4,0,1


I am not sure what you’re asking..
In the example above, I’d say that camera has 31,766 + 65,535 + 65,535 = 162,836 actuations..

I could be wrong, `tho..

[foxbat]

Originally Posted by dfindr

Anyone? Please!

In pseudocode the total 32 bit count is e[2] + e[1]<<16 where e is a 16 bit array of unsigned integers in exif#93. Applied to your examples you are looking at counts of 31766 and 3131 respectively. Use my utility (linked above) if you're a non-programmer.

[pcollyer]

Originally Posted by dfindr

Anyone? Please!

Found this on another site, I think posted by Tim Grey...

In PS CS2 using a RAW file:

File
File Info
Advanced
Click on the + line: "http://ns/adobe.com/exif/1.0/aux/" (this line is not available for jpg). [Edited]
There will be a line that reads: ImageNumber: xxxx

It works.

[dfindr]

Come on guys. There has to me a mega geek out there that lives for this stuff. We need to get this figured out so we can check old 1D bodies and get an accurate click count.

Foxbat -- neat utility of you know 100% certain your camera does not have more than 65535 clicks on it. So for folks that buy 1D bodies new, great utility. However, if you are evaluating a 1D mark 1 body, it could very well have over 65535 clicks on it, or for that matter 2 or 3 times that many. There are folks out there selling these things when the cycle counter has turned over 1 or 2 times at 65535 clicks claiming the 1D has a whole lot less clicks than what is the true count.

The Adobe CS2 suggestion is good however the same thing applies as it cannot tell you if the cycle counter has turned over at 65535. Same problem as above.

Regading HERMETO's opinion, the second camera string in the OP cannot be true per Hermeto's opinion as I know that particular camera does not have just 3131 clicks on it which leads me to believe the last number and not the 2nd number after the colon is the cycle counter (How many times the shutter has passed 65535 clicks).

Now based on a post in the FM forum, one of the responders stated that he had his shutter replaced and the second number after the colon was a "1", with 994 in the third position. Now this makes sense perhaps in that canon when replacing the shutter, put the "1" in the second position.

Any canon camera repairs techs out there?

[segasaturn]

I bought a used 1D. The seller said it had about 78000 clicks, but the reader says only 71,000. However, in the exif, it does have 65,535 TWO TIMES!!! So now I'm concerned that it actually has closer to 135,000 clicks rather than 78,000. 135,000 is a lot closer to the 150,000 MTF than 78,000 is.

[cosworth]

Originally Posted by pcollyer

Found this on another site, I think posted by Tim Grey...

In PS CS2 using a RAW file:

File
File Info
Advanced
Click on the + line: "http://ns/adobe.com/exif/1.0/aux/" (this line is not available for jpg). [Edited]
There will be a line that reads: ImageNumber: xxxx

It works.

This results in incorrect numbers.

[dfindr]

Originally Posted by segasaturn

I bought a used 1D. The seller said it had about 78000 clicks, but the reader says only 71,000. However, in the exif, it does have 65,535 TWO TIMES!!! So now I'm concerned that it actually has closer to 135,000 clicks rather than 78,000. 135,000 is a lot closer to the 150,000 MTF than 78,000 is.

Segasatun "I feel your pain" I can't believe that there isn't someone out there that can clear all this up for us. The numbers mean something and we need to figure it out. Someone please help!

[garypasz]

Try this macro counter for 1D models only, can not remember who first provided this but quite a few people on here recommend it.

http://www.sonnycao.com/files/1dcount.zip

[dfindr]

Originally Posted by garypasz

Try this macro counter for 1D models only, can not remember who first provided this but quite a few people on here recommend it.

http://www.sonnycao.com/files/1dcount.zip

I have tried it. It only tells you how many clicks up to 65535. At that point the cycle counter turns over and the count starts again at 1. That means it is accurate only if you know for a fact your camera has not exceeded 65535 clicks.

[malla1962]

Have you tried exiftool?its free and gives a lot of info inc shutter count.
http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/

[cosworth]

1dcount works perfectly on my Vista PC and has accurately determined the frame count on my old 1Ds mk.I to 86K, matching Cancount perfectly.

[dfindr]

Originally Posted by cosworth

1dcount works perfectly on my Vista PC and has accurately determined the frame count on my old 1Ds mk.I to 86K, matching Cancount perfectly.

Cosworth:

That is interesting, because I used 1dCount on an 1D that I know has lots of shutter clicks, it tells me that it has only 3158 clicks, and I know that is not accurate. When you ran your camera through 1DCount did it actually give you a number more than 65535?

Anyone else have this same experience with 1DCount in actually getting a click number in excess of 65535?

Interesting, more research is required!