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Old 4th of August 2007 (Sat)   #1
Valiant
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Default Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye for the full frame 24x36mm sensor camera (Canon 5D).

Now I have a lens Sigma 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye (new, not a f/4) and I have borrowed Sigma 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye at comrade. But I think, that Tokina 10-17 (with shaved sun-shade) is very interesting lens too.

I have some questions about Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom:
1. Is contrast in conter-light shoot strongly falls?
2. Was it easy to correct CA and suppress blooming?
3. What diagonal angle of view is usable at 10-12-14mm focal length?
4. Is flare effect pronounced?
5. Is nodal point "floating"?

Thanks for any help.
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Last edited by Valiant : 4th of August 2007 (Sat) at 14:04.
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #2
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Have anybody some suggestions?
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #3
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

seeing as you have a 5d, the major problem with it for you is that the 10-17 is designed for APS-C sensors, eg. like the 400d/30d. it will vignette very badly.
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #4
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
I have some questions about Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom:
1. Is contrast in conter-light shoot strongly falls?
2. Was it easy to correct CA and suppress blooming?
3. What diagonal angle of view is usable at 10-12-14mm focal length?
4. Is flare effect pronounced?
5. Is nodal point "floating"?
I use a Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom .. and I have no idea what you're talking about

All I know is that it's a really fun lens to use!


Gage
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #5
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
seeing as you have a 5d, the major problem with it for you is that the 10-17 is designed for APS-C sensors, eg. like the 400d/30d. it will vignette very badly.
I'm going to buy this lens for spherical panoramas ( http://www.3dpanorama.ru/gallery/ )
Vignetting is not problem.
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #6
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...anography.html

here is an article about it on the 5d. you will need to modify the lens, as the sunshade is designed for APS-C, and therefore voiding your warranty. is it worth it for 7 degrees extra FOV over your 8mm?
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Last edited by asylumxl : 6th of August 2007 (Mon) at 15:57.
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #7
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Hi Valiant,

I'll try to answer some of your questions .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant View Post
Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye for the full frame 24x36mm sensor camera (Canon 5D).

Now I have a lens Sigma 8mm f/3.5 Fisheye (new, not a f/4) and I have borrowed Sigma 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye at comrade. But I think, that Tokina 10-17 (with shaved sun-shade) is very interesting lens too.

I have some questions about Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye-zoom:
1. Is contrast in conter-light shoot strongly falls?
If you mean, is contrast less with contra-light, the answer is no, provided you expose correctly. I find the results actually quite amazing.
Quote:
2. Was it easy to correct CA and suppress blooming?
So far I never had the need to do so. Some people say it has lots of (T)CA at the edges, I haven't noticed any to any large degree at all. As to blooming, I guess the kind that is supposed to be generated by LCAs with specular type of highlights, again, I haven't been able to get it to do this. Certainly nothing in any high contrast shots I have made so far. And just to assure you, it is easy to get LCAs with my Canon EF 85 F/1.8 at full aperture .
Quote:
3. What diagonal angle of view is usable at 10-12-14mm focal length?
If you mean on a 5D, I can't really help you here, except that Michel Toby reckons with a shaved lens hood, which could be shaved even more when you're even braver than he is, it is 194 degrees, diagonally, but it vignettes in the corners, similarly to 8 mm on APS-C. Just check the links further down. At 15 mm it is approximately 180 degrees diagonally, on FF anyway, and beyond that it doesn't increase very rapidly, as you are close to the maximum AoV of the lens already. I would think it'll start vignetting rather rapidly after that.
Quote:
4. Is flare effect pronounced?
No. You get a start shaped pattern, like you'd get with any lens, caused by the iris diaphragm, plus a few, small diaphragm spots, which are not very conspicuous. Contrast is still very good.
Quote:
5. Is nodal point "floating"?
I don't know, I don't normally do panoramics, and I don't have a 5D, so I couldn't tell you. I'll include a few links to the relevant pages on Michel Toby's site.

Tokina vs Nikkor vs Canon: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...kor_Canon.html
Panography (example): http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...anography.html
Shaving the hood: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...im_method.html
Location of nodal point: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Locate%20point%20nodal.html
Something on CAs and fisheyes: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Compare_...ct_on_TCA.html
and: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Compare_...ality_TCA.html

Quote:
Thanks for any help.
HTH, kind regards, Wim
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #8
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
seeing as you have a 5d, the major problem with it for you is that the 10-17 is designed for APS-C sensors, eg. like the 400d/30d. it will vignette very badly.
It will not vignette from approximately 15 mm on a 5D, where it still has a 180 degree diagonal AoV, IOW, it is still a full-fledged fisheye at that FL, for the 5D.

This is really the universal fisheye for dslrs, the way I see it:
180 degree diagonal AoV at 10 mm for APS-C, at 12-13 mm for APS-H, and at 15 mm for FF!

Kind regards, Wim
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #9
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

its strange that you say at 15mm it gives you 180 deg fov at 15mm, cos i posted a link to the same guy just before you did and he measured it as much less?!
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #10
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...anography.html

here is an article about it on the 5d. you will need to modify the lens, as the sunshade is designed for APS-C, and therefore voiding your warranty. is it worth it for 7 degrees extra FOV over your 8mm?
It's 194 degrees, so 14 more . And according to Michel, if you are really brave, you could tweak out a few more degrees, by more aggressively cutting back the remaining rim .

Kind regards, Wim
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #11
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

i must be reading from the wrong place. 193.6 i see now, from 12.5mm. wimg can you explain why 10mm on it has less fov than 12.5mm? there is still the warranty issue though .
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Last edited by asylumxl : 6th of August 2007 (Mon) at 16:15.
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #12
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
its strange that you say at 15mm it gives you 180 deg fov at 15mm, cos i posted a link to the same guy just before you did and he measured it as much less?!
I think you were reading HFOV and VFOV, of 93 and 140 respectively, for a portrait oriented image. That makes for a 180 degree AoV diagonally.

Kind regards, Wim
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #13
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
i must be reading from the wrong place. 193.6 i see now, from 12.5mm. wimg can you explain why 10mm on it has less fov than 12.5mm? there is still the warranty issue though .
I just did . It is Circular FOV (= diagonal FOV) vs horizontal and vertical FOV .

And yes, there is the issue of the lens warranty .

Maybe someone should write Tokina, to make the hood detachable . I don't think they realize what a gem they really created with this lens .

Kind regards, Wim
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #14
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by wimg View Post
Maybe someone should write Tokina, to make the hood detachable . I don't think they realize what a gem they really created with this lens .
could have a tokina 10-17mm II, like the 200 f2.8L II
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Old 6th of August 2007 (Mon)   #15
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Default Re: Tokina 10-17mm Fisheye vs. Sigma 15mm Fisheye + Sigma 8mm Fisheye

Quote:
Originally Posted by asylumxl View Post
http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_1...anography.html

here is an article about it on the 5d. you will need to modify the lens, as the sunshade is designed for APS-C, and therefore voiding your warranty. is it worth it for 7 degrees extra FOV over your 8mm?
I saw this web-site. In the test Tokina 10-17 is very well, but in the real pano contrast is too low and flare is too high. Questions are remain.

I know, that I should shave this lens. But I wish to have a universal lens, for quick pano and hi-rez pano also.

Pro for Tokina 10-17 (at 10 or 12mm) vs. Sigma 8mm:
- Percent of utilization on much more, but in both cases 3 shot for 360*180 pano is required only
- Sigma 8mm has "floating" nodal point, Tokina 10-17mm - ?
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