When to talk $$$...

[tghaines]

Hi guys,

Before you refer me to 3 Brazilian links about charging, STOP. this in not about how much to charge, bet when to set the value of your work.

When you are approaching a new client (Magazine, Newspaper, etc..) with a photo/story idea, when do you discuss rates?

Upfront - "Hi there Editor, I have a great idea that will cost you $100 per 10,000 distributed copies, it's XXXXXX are you keen"?

During - "Good to hear you're keen. Let me know your rate card and I'll see what I can do for you"

After - "So....that story of mine you printed on the front page.....what's that worth?"

I'm getting some work and some $$ but I'd like to not get ripped-off due to poor negotiation timing.

thanks in advance for the tips.....

[blackshadow]

Generally I ask what a client's budget is for assignment type work and try to work within it at my normal rates.

[airfrogusmc]

Always get the $$$ out of the way first. Saves allot of headaches later.

[Dchemist]

I agree with airfrogusmc -- get it out of the way. Its probably the third step in the process. You have to find out what they need, show them how you can best fill that need and then tell them what it will cost. Good luck, Dennis

[LotsToLearn]

Originally Posted by tghaines

Before you refer me to 3 Brazilian links about charging, STOP.

Just wondering... why Brazilian? Is that commonly pointed to for information?

[ssim]

I disagree with dealing with this at the very first. You are just making contact with a potential new client, don't you want to get to know them a little bit first. I like to talk about concepts, what are their expectations and can I deliver on them. It is so much easier to talk money when you have built a rapport with the other person. Certainly in some cases they may want to get this out up front but then that is their choice.

There is no cut and dried rule on how to deal with this. You have to be able to feel the emotion in the discussions and calculate when the best time it is to approach the financials. When dealing with corporate clients I will normally chat with them trying to almost get to a personal level with them and let them decide when it is time to get to that question. In my case most of the corporate work that I do are larger projects so there is plenty of opportunity to discuss other items.

If it is something very small like doing a handful of shots for someones website then I will try and get this out sooner than later. When dealing with a potential wedding client I will not answer the question until I know what they want. So many of them will call and ask "How much do you charge for a wedding". You are presented with a great opportunity to upsell the couple into something more than maybe they were looking for. You can get creative on payment options and come out way ahead.

I doubt that I handle any two situations exactly the same. I try to get a feel for where this potential customer is at and what exactly they are looking for. If it is something that I don't think that I can or want to handle I will tell them right up front. I am not going to harm my reputation by taking something on and then supply anything less than what they were looking for.

[transcend]

Originally Posted by ssim

I disagree with dealing with this at the very first. You are just making contact with a potential new client, don't you want to get to know them a little bit first. I like to talk about concepts, what are their expectations and can I deliver on them. It is so much easier to talk money when you have built a rapport with the other person. Certainly in some cases they may want to get this out up front but then that is their choice.

There is no cut and dried rule on how to deal with this. You have to be able to feel the emotion in the discussions and calculate when the best time it is to approach the financials. When dealing with corporate clients I will normally chat with them trying to almost get to a personal level with them and let them decide when it is time to get to that question. In my case most of the corporate work that I do are larger projects so there is plenty of opportunity to discuss other items.

If it is something very small like doing a handful of shots for someones website then I will try and get this out sooner than later. When dealing with a potential wedding client I will not answer the question until I know what they want. So many of them will call and ask "How much do you charge for a wedding". You are presented with a great opportunity to upsell the couple into something more than maybe they were looking for. You can get creative on payment options and come out way ahead.

I doubt that I handle any two situations exactly the same. I try to get a feel for where this potential customer is at and what exactly they are looking for. If it is something that I don't think that I can or want to handle I will tell them right up front. I am not going to harm my reputation by taking something on and then supply anything less than what they were looking for.

This is generally the way I work as well with all of my clients. Discuss projects, show examples, get them excited first. Then you can discuss pricing. If they really liked what you brought to the table, it is much easier. If they know they are getting a quality product, they are less likely to shrink away from you saying it's $xxxx amount of dollars.

BTW missed you at Ste Anne this year Sheldon!

[tghaines]

Thanks for the info. I have been using the last option....with out much luck of course . "Oh...I though you were giving these out free??" has been a common response.

My most recent dealing I used the suggested, DURING, and that worked a charm. Find the market, get them keen then talk money. There were no objections and in fact they want me for more shoots!!!!

Why Brazilian.....it's from a joke I heard about George W. He gets passes a note in a press conference saying "3 Brazilian soldiers have been killed in Iraq". He goes pale....When asked what the problem is, he says..."Exactly how many is 3 Brazilian?"

Sorry....bad joke.

Cheers,

[mspringfield]

I too agree with the "get it out of the way first" camp. I got a call last spring from someone wanting me to shoot a baseball tourney. They guy on the phone told me all about his company and said that they "pay very well" and after looking at my shots that I would definitely be at the "top of the pay scale". At this point I asked him to define "top of the pay scale", less than 5 minutes into the conversation. He replied "$15.00 an hour." I politely apologized and told him that my minimum rate for this kind of thing is $30.00 an hour plus expenses. Needless to say I did not get hired and we both saved ourselves lots of time and trouble.

Michael

[canoflan]

It is a mixture of approaches, depending on where your client is heading. I just began working for money in this business and find that some clients talk about it at front and some figure you will be reasonable and expect you to bring it up. I find that if the client hasn't discussed money in the first discussion, I bring it up in the next. Clients usually know they are going to be paying for the services and would like to know what they are looking at as much as you want to know what you will be getting. Currently, I have only one client that is not a friend/family contact, therefore, in dealing with her, I walked through the plan, then she asked me about the cost and I had an invoice ready requesting 50% before the event and 50% at the event; for friends and family that insist on paying, I let them bring me a check, or bug me about cost, then I give them 50% off my "man off the street" rates and a price list for additional prints with the same 50% discount.

After awhile, I expect to increase my "man off the street" rates as my portfolio grows, etc....

I simply remember that most clients are willing to pay for your services because pictures are all about emotion and feelings and less about the money for them. I have found that showing a genuine interest in making things happen for them the way they want really greases the payment process well.

Pat

[LBaldwin]

Each business person will handle this in a different fashion. When I am asked about my availibility for a project, I indicate rates early in the planning but during the first phone call. This allows me to sit back and think about the costs involved and where to set my rates accordingly. It also depends on the type of job. Editorial pays peanuts compared to commercial. A head shot does not pay as well as a portrait sitting etc.

If I am creating a text photo package, or personal project that is for sale the pricing can be discussed once interest in the project is gotten.

One hard and fast rule I have is never quote cash during the first phone call. Give yourself a few hours to come up with a workable cost and some wiggle room if need be.
Then I provide the client or potential client with a Written quote via email or PDF or carrier pidgeon etc.

FYI I never ask about the budget, I don't care what they want to pay, it is never going to be the rate you wanted anyway unless you don't know how to price your work.

Les