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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 15 Jul 2004 (Thursday) 15:34
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Help needed - Want to purchase SLR for IR...

 
devs101
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Joined May 2004
Jul 15, 2004 15:34 |  #1

Hi people I'm in the market for a (Canon) Digital SLR for around the £1000 mark Ideally I looking for a camera that includes a lens not just body only and would also like the ability to use an IR R72 or B+W 93 filter on it. Any ideas what I should be going for? I've been looking at the EOS 300D yet I do not know if this camera is susceptible to Infrared?

Thanks for the help,

Devs.




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CyberDyneSystems
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Jul 15, 2004 20:59 |  #2

Devs..

I moved your post into the EOS forum because I'm betting you'll find an answer faster here.

I don't have a 300D myself,. nor have a shot IR with my 10D...

But I think that both the 10D and 300D will "do" IR to a certain degree... (I know the D30 did it best)

Let's see if there are any 300D owners who know for sure.


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mattchase
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Jul 15, 2004 23:02 |  #3

The 10D will do IR (more accurately, Near InfraRed). I have used a couple different filters, the best so far being a Hoya RM72. The 10D isn't as good at IR as some others, but it is very capable.

I have not used a 300D, so can't say if it will work or not. I do know some one who has one, and could probably borrow it to test it out, but probably not until next week. So hopefully some one else will be able to answer this question for you.




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karusel
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Jul 15, 2004 23:48 |  #4

There is a way to convert a digicam into a true IR camera, I think they remove on-sensor filter or something, naturally you can't later use it as a visible light camera. If you want that, I'd suggest you buy a D30. Otherwise any D-SLR and a IR filter.


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devs101
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Jul 16, 2004 02:29 |  #5

Thanks for moving the post MOD I wasn't 100% sure of the best place.

mattchase Many thanks for the info I don't want you to go out of your way and borrow a 300D for testing - thanks for the offer though. I also have an R72 filter so I might just pop down to the local camera shop with the filter and do a couple of test shots with both the 10D and 300D.

Hi karusel yes I've heard about getting the hot mirror removed however its a company that I work for that are buying this camera for me and I'm just going to be using it for Infrared in my spare time, so I don't think they would be to impressed. Having said that I have just bought an old G1 that is a great little IR camera and I may have it converted to a pure IR camera ;)

Thanks for the help guys.

Devs.




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polloloco81
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Jul 16, 2004 02:35 |  #6

You'll be able to capture IR with the 300D/10D, but they will not be the best. Using the Hoya R72, you'll get some pretty noisy, blurry, low contrast pics. You will definitely need to modify the camera. The only camera I am familiar with that can take amazing IR photographs is the G1.


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devs101
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Jul 16, 2004 08:13 |  #7

thanks for the feedback polloloco81 - your right the G1 is a cracking camera for IR. I think its going to be a 300D that I buy for the company.

Cheers again Guys.

Devs.




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mattchase
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Jul 16, 2004 08:56 |  #8

I don't disagree that the 10D isn't the best choice, short of removing the hot mirror, but the photos will be anything but noisy, blurry, and low contrast.

Example...
6 seconds at f5.6, ISO 100

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Yes, it needed help in Photoshop to get it to look like this, but it has very little noise, and is only a tad soft due to focus being off a bit (focusing for IR is different than normal light focusing).



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msvadi
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Jul 16, 2004 11:39 |  #9

As I understand, the biggets problem with digital infrared is blooming - bright spot/circle in the center. I could not find anywhere exact explanation for why it happens. It does not show up always, some lenses have it, some don't.

mattchase: what lens did you use? Can you, may be, upload original large size, unprocessed file somewhere and provide us a link to it?

Regarding focusing, some lenses have IR index for focus adjustment.

Finally, if the origonal poster is interested in a DSLR dedicated to IR, it is possible to convert a D30, D60 and some other DSLRs to IR only camera. check this link: http://www.irdigital.n​et/external link
may be it's possible to find a used D30 very cheap, and send it for modification.




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polloloco81
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Jul 16, 2004 12:06 |  #10

mattchase wrote:
I don't disagree that the 10D isn't the best choice, short of removing the hot mirror, but the photos will be anything but noisy, blurry, and low contrast.

Example...
6 seconds at f5.6, ISO 100
NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


Yes, it needed help in Photoshop to get it to look like this, but it has very little noise, and is only a tad soft due to focus being off a bit (focusing for IR is different than normal light focusing).

Yeah, that's definitely a nice IR shot. What I meant was compared to some of the cameras like the G1. Check these galleries out.

Don Ellis's:
http://www.kleptograph​y.com/gallery-ir72m.htm (external link)
He's able to get IR shots in low light situations. With the 300D or 10D, you're going to need as much light as possible.

Daniella's:
http://www.pbase.com/z​ylen/infrared_with_dim​age_7 (external link)


POLLOLOCO81
http://www.manhadesign​.com/indexx.phpexternal link

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mattchase
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Jul 16, 2004 22:57 |  #11

The G1 does an awesome job at IR, no doubt. I considered buying a Nikon 900 or 950 some time ago, as those were some of the first cameras that proved excellent at doing IR work. I have lately been thinking about a D30...

I used the Canon 17-35mm L for that shot, and lately have been using my Canon 50mm 1.8. I would rather not upload the original raw file, but will upload a converted TIF that besides conversion settings and a big ugly copyright, will remain unedited. On the copyright, it's not that I don't trust you guys, I don't trust the passerby who might see this and take my images. I don't want any of my full size images floating around, since I am trying to make a living et all (not having much luck at that part yet). The copyright will not interfere with your ability to see the important aspects of the full size file.

Converted using Photoshop CS at the following settings.
Color Temp: 3500
Tint: +15 (default +15)
Exposure: +.5 (default 0)
Shadows: 10 (default 0)
Brightness: 75 (default 50)
Contrast: +60 (default +25)
Saturation: 10 (default 0)

http://www.matthewchas​e.com/crw_3073.tifexternal link
(be warned: 18mb file! I recommend right clicking and choosing "Save Target As")

The bright spot does cause some problems, and seems to be caused by the coating on some lenses. Here is a list that I found elsewhere on this forum, listing which lenses people have had good luck and bad luck with when shooting IR. I haven't used each of these for IR work, so can't confirm the findings of many of these. The bold lenses are those which I have used personally.

Good

Canon EF 17-40mm f/4 L
Canon EF 17-35mm f/2.8 L
Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L
Canon EF 28-135mm/3.5-5.6 IS
Canon EF 28mm f/2.8
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 MKI
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 MKII
Canon EF 70-200mm f/4L
Canon EF 75-300mm/4.0-5.6 IS
Canon EF 135mm f/2L
Canon EF 100-400mm4.0-5.6 IS L
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro
Sigma 20mm f1.8


=========
Bad

Canon EF 16-35mm f2.8 L
Canon EF 20mm f/2.8
Canon EF 35mm f/2
Canon EF 24-85mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF 28-70mm f/2.8L
Canon EF 28-105mm f/3.5-4.5
Canon EF 35-80/4.0-5.6
Canon EF 50mm/f1.4
Canon EF 50mm/f2.5 Macro
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS
Canon EF 85mm f/1.8
Tamron 70-300mm f3.x-xxx Macro
Sigma 70-200 2.8 ex
Tamron 28-75 2.8 xr di
Tamron 19-35mm f3.5-4.5

I did have a Canon 70-200mm f/2.8L and Canon 28-80L for a very short time to play with, and had my small (52mm) IR filter, but can't give conclusive results of my tests due to not having the correct sized filter. I basically tried using a gobo around the lens leading to the filter, acting like a stepdown device, but it's hard to say if it really worked.




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Ken ­ Farmer
Hatchling
1 post
Joined Aug 2006
Aug 28, 2006 11:44 |  #12

Hi. www.InfraredVideo.comexternal link has one in stock.

Hi people I'm in the market for a (Canon) Digital SLR for around the £1000 mark Ideally I looking for a camera that includes a lens not just body only and would also like the ability to use an IR R72 or B+W 93 filter on it. Any ideas what I should be going for? I've been looking at the EOS 300D yet I do not know if this camera is susceptible to Infrared?

Thanks for the help,

Devs.[/QUOTE]




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ssim
POTN Landscape & Cityscape Photographer 2005
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10,884 posts
Joined Apr 2003
southern Alberta, Canada
Aug 28, 2006 12:42 as a reply to Ken Farmer's post |  #13

If one is serious about IR photograpy, forget the filter process and get yourself an older body and have it permanently converted to do IR. Barring this, you would probably want to find a camera that does not have an anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor.

I had by 10D convertered by Life Pixel (external link). Previous to this I had (well still have) a Hoya R72 filter and using the converted camera method gives you allot more flexibility in what you can take. The filter method results in having shutter speeds in the 20 second range. Therefore you are somewhat limited to things that have any amount of motion to them, unless of course you are wanting to have that simulated motion look in them. It is difficult to focus with the filter on. There are other firms that offer these conversions but I was happy with the service I got from Life Pixel.

I had the camera converted and went out and played with it but since I have been too busy to really give it the attention that I would like. You still have to go through some hoops to do it right. You need to set a custom white balance of something deep green and then use that going forward. These are still not images that you take right out of camera and post. The need some tlc in photoshop and there are many websites and actions that will help you out in this respect. The attached example is from the first day of playing with the converted 10D.

When I was working in Montreal I met this woman, www.rachelita.com (external link). She does some great work in IR and she does have some resource websites on her site for you to refer to if you like.

IMAGE: http://www.pbase.com/ssim/image/55922704.jpg

My life is like one big RAW file....way too much post processing needed.
Sheldon Simpson | My Galleryexternal link | My Gear updated: 20JUL12

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Help needed - Want to purchase SLR for IR...
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