Any tips for my setup with flash and football?

[montanafan]

I've been spoiled by a field with decent lighting, so I don't have a lot of experience using a flash for football. I used it last Friday and got a few good photos, but most had the usual problems - lots of red eyes and blown out pupils, shadows, and blurring. I know I'll have to use it again at the field for the game this Friday because I've shot there before without flash and had few keepers.

I've read some of the threads here about flash and football and I liked the photos in the one with the flash mounted on the monopod below the camera, but that idea won't work for me because I am not comfortable using a monopod. I tried it for a couple of games last year and just felt too restricted by it.

These photos were shot with a Canon Rebel XT, Canon 430EX flash, ISO 1600, f/2.8 to f/3.5, and of course the shutter speed stuck at the 1/200th sync. Flash was set to manual 1/32, and no flash exposure compensation (I don't know much about that.). I have an old Vivitar 285 flash that I could use on a side bracket with an adaptor to try and minimize the red eyes and get a higher shutter speed if you think that might help, but getting the exposure right with it can be a pain. Any tips or advice before Friday would be much appreciated.

These are some of the best ones I had, but even they had noticeble flaws:

Photo #1 - this was probably the best of the bunch, though there is just a little bit of blur.


Photo #2 - pretty good, but you can see that I had to try to fix the blown out pupil on the runner and I'm not that good at it.


Photo #3 - I liked this one, but noticeable blurring.


Photo #4 - runner good, tackler blurred.


Photo #5 - second best of the bunch, and the red eye wasn't too bad, but knowing he has blue eyes makes it more noticeable.


Photo #6 - lots of red eyes in this one that I started trying to fix and gave up on.


Photo #7 - the evil eye look.


Photo #8 - this is the one that bugged me the most. I liked the shot, but there was a lot of blurring that carried the purple onto the face of the runner and I started trying to fix it, but left the worst of the blurring down at the tackler's glove to show the problem.


Edit: I just wanted to add that I had the 430EX mounted on top of the camera for these. Would I get fewer red eyes with that flash if I mounted it on a side bracket?

[dmwierz]

fan,

If you'd read the posts, you know what the standard approaches are, and you say you're not comfortable using a monopod (what lens are you using?) so I'm not sure what type of advice you're looking for - affirmation of your current methods?

FWIW, I and many others use monopods in many situations, ranging from football to baseball to tennis, etc (and even indoors, on a 300 lens, courtside at basketball). While it does little your mobility a bit, I have never felt "restricted by it". In fact, when shooting a 300 or larger, it adds stability and reduces fatigue to a point where I can't imagine not using it. You might want to reconsider your decision to not employ a monopod.

Your shots are pretty good (watch your horizons, though).

Red eye and even "demon eye" are gonna happen, especially with an on-camera flash. Generally, mounting the flash on the side will help but will also produce some odd shadows, which is why most folks mount the flashes above/below the camera.

and of course the shutter speed stuck at the 1/200th sync.

Max sync speed is 1/250s. How come you're at 1/200s?

Some of what you're seeing is motion blur and other "blurring" is from ghosting, which happens when your flash isn't enough above ambient light level. With your flash set enough higher than ambient, the flash duration will stop the action, not the shutter.

On a couple shots, I think you just missed focus. This is not hard to do since the light levels are low at HS football games, and the AF system in your camera struggles in low light.

[montanafan]

Okay, fair enough, maybe a better way to approach this would be for me to list the equipment available to me and ask for advice on what to put together for the best setup to try to minimize things like red eye, blurring, and weird shadows. Some of my questions may sound pretty dumb, but keep in mind that I very little experience using a flash.

1) I'm using a Rebel XT for football for the first time, I used a Drebel in the past, and I don't know much about the Custom Functions or about the Flash Exposure Compensation function. I'm using the Canon 430EX for the first season too, and again, I don't know much about the Flash Exposure Compensation function on it. Any basic advice about FEC use on the camera or flash would be appreciated.

2) The flash sync speed on the Rebel XT is always 1/200th. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to increase that to 1/250th?

3) I have two types of brackets for the flash. One is the side type with the height of the flash at the same point it would be at on the camera. The other is the type that places the flash well above the camera and in line with the lens. I have used the side one in the past with a Vivitar 285 flash and it did seem to reduce red-eye, but as dmwierz has mentioned, there are some strange shadows at times. I only used the above camera one once at a basketball game and the photos were horrible so I haven't used it since. My thinking is that in football it would reduce red-eye, but wouldn't it make the shadows under the helmets worse?

4) I set the 430EX to manual and 1/32 in order to get faster recycle times for one shot after another, but I am getting some ghosting as dmwierz said. Should I set it at 1/16 to reduce this while sacrificing recycling time, or because of my ignorance of flash settings, should I be doing something entirely different?

5) About using a monopod. I have one with a flexible ballhead and the couple of times I tried using it at football games it aggravated the heck out of me. I couldn't get it changed from landscape to portrait mode with level horizons well at all. I probably wasn't holding it correctly either because I had more blurred shots with it than I've ever had shooting handheld. Any advice for using one would be appreciated and I'll give a try at Friday night's game.

6) I use a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 lens most of the time, but I also have a Canon 75-300 f/4 lens as well. Since I'll be using a flash, would the Canon lens be better? I did have some problems with AF in low light with the Sigma, would the Canon be better, about the same, worse?

7) I noticed that the AF assist beam did not seem to be firing on the 430EX, is that because I have not set something on it or the camera correctly? I noticed that on the Rebel XT there is a Custom Function 05 for the AF assist beam, should I have it set to "2 Only emits ext. flash"?

That's about as specific as I can get right now. If you could give me advice on any or all of the above for how to set things up for Friday night, I'd be very grateful.

[GentleGiant]

I am amazed any sport would allow flashunits - surely being that close will just put off the players?

[hawk911]

Originally Posted by GentleGiant

I am amazed any sport would allow flashunits - surely being that close will just put off the players?

Lots of recent posts on flash and sports. Dennis is a major contributor to the discussions.

[Gatorboy]

Originally Posted by montanafan

I set the 430EX to manual and 1/32 in order to get faster recycle times for one shot after another, but I am getting some ghosting as dmwierz said. Should I set it at 1/16 to reduce this while sacrificing recycling time.

How much rapid firing are you doing? At 1/16 power, you should be able to get 16+ shots off before needing recycling.

[dmwierz]

Originally Posted by montanafan

Okay, fair enough, maybe a better way to approach this would be for me to list the equipment available to me and ask for advice on what to put together for the best setup to try to minimize things like red eye, blurring, and weird shadows. Some of my questions may sound pretty dumb, but keep in mind that I very little experience using a flash.

Night football is pretty tough, so you're starting out trying to solve a rough one, but OK, let's see what we can do.

Originally Posted by montanafan

1) I'm using a Rebel XT for football for the first time, I used a Drebel in the past, and I don't know much about the Custom Functions or about the Flash Exposure Compensation function. I'm using the Canon 430EX for the first season too, and again, I don't know much about the Flash Exposure Compensation function on it. Any basic advice about FEC use on the camera or flash would be appreciated.

The best advice is to read the manual that came with your Rebel XT. FEC is applicable while you are shooting under ETTL-II, which is how I shoot. Basically what it does is increase the intensity of the flash, leaving all your other exposure settings the same. You'll also need to understand how to interpret your histogram to allow you to determine how much FEC to employ.

Originally Posted by montanafan

2) The flash sync speed on the Rebel XT is always 1/200th. Am I missing something here? Is there a way to increase that to 1/250th?

I forgot about the flash sync topping out at 1/200s for the XT. You might want to ensure you don't have Custom Fn 3 set in the wrong way: Custom Function # 3 sets the flash sync speed in aperture priority auto mode to a fixed 1/200 second or leaves the sync speed on auto/slow sync. You want it set to auto/slow sync.

Originally Posted by montanafan

3) I have two types of brackets for the flash. One is the side type with the height of the flash at the same point it would be at on the camera. The other is the type that places the flash well above the camera and in line with the lens. I have used the side one in the past with a Vivitar 285 flash and it did seem to reduce red-eye, but as dmwierz has mentioned, there are some strange shadows at times. I only used the above camera one once at a basketball game and the photos were horrible so I haven't used it since. My thinking is that in football it would reduce red-eye, but wouldn't it make the shadows under the helmets worse?

You want the flash above or below the lens. The farther away from the lens you get it, the less red eye you'll have. Putting it to the side can create odd looking shadows, since our eyes are used to seeing more or less vertical shadows (from the big flash in the sky, and also since most artificial lights are above us). If you get helmet shadows (not really as much of a problem as you might think), follow one of my big suggestions for shooting football: get lower.

Originally Posted by montanafan

4) I set the 430EX to manual and 1/32 in order to get faster recycle times for one shot after another, but I am getting some ghosting as dmwierz said. Should I set it at 1/16 to reduce this while sacrificing recycling time, or because of my ignorance of flash settings, should I be doing something entirely different?

See below. Setting it to ETTL is how I work. If you want to shoot manual, try 1/4 power. You don't want to under power the flash since you're correct, you'll get ghosting, not to mention exposure issues.

Originally Posted by montanafan

5) About using a monopod. I have one with a flexible ballhead and the couple of times I tried using it at football games it aggravated the heck out of me. I couldn't get it changed from landscape to portrait mode with level horizons well at all. I probably wasn't holding it correctly either because I had more blurred shots with it than I've ever had shooting handheld. Any advice for using one would be appreciated and I'll give a try at Friday night's game.

Ballheads don't work well for action sports IMO. Why not just use the tripod mount collar that comes with your camera? That's what it's there for! It's a LOT faster, can be locked/unlocked by turning one knob, always keeps the lens lined up with the monopod, and it's always there.

Originally Posted by montanafan

6) I use a Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 lens most of the time, but I also have a Canon 75-300 f/4 lens as well. Since I'll be using a flash, would the Canon lens be better? I did have some problems with AF in low light with the Sigma, would the Canon be better, about the same, worse?

Impossible to say. The Sigma 70-200 is a much better lens, though, and your "Canon 75-300 f/4" is NOT an f/4 lens - it's a 75-300 f/4-5.6 which means it will likely be an f/5.6 lens at 300mm, which is way too slow for night football and a full two stops slower than your Sigma.

Originally Posted by montanafan

7) I noticed that the AF assist beam did not seem to be firing on the 430EX, is that because I have not set something on it or the camera correctly? I noticed that on the Rebel XT there is a Custom Function 05 for the AF assist beam, should I have it set to "2 Only emits ext. flash"?

First of all, set C Fn 5 to "0". Then, are you in AI Servo? If so, the AF assist light is never illuminated.

Originally Posted by montanafan

That's about as specific as I can get right now. If you could give me advice on any or all of the above for how to set things up for Friday night, I'd be very grateful.

My advice is pretty straightforward. Learn how to use your camera. Covering night football is not easy, and when you add flash into the equation, it becomes even tougher.

Here are my settings, but they are not cast in concrete, and you will have to make adjustments based on the conditions at the field you are shooting (and even at various places on your playing field).

Shutter speed 1/250s (in your case, 1/200s); Aperture f/2.8 ; ISO 800; Flash set to ETTL mode and FEC +1 (to start with - the 430 has FEC, doesn't it?). Now here's where it gets tricky: you're gonna have to look at the histograms of your images to determine how well they are exposed. You'll want them to show some information on the right half of the histogram, otherwise you shots will be underexposed. But, you don't want TOO much information otherwise they will be over-exposed. To adjust exposure, you change FEC. For example, if the shots are underexposed, ADD some FEC. If they are overexposed, reduce FEC.

If you do everything correctly, you wont have to worry about your flash sync speed being 1/200s Vs. 1/250s since the flash will be stopping the action, not the shutter.

How much rapid firing are you doing? At 1/16 power, you should be able to get 16+ shots off before needing recycling.

Careful! Even at reduced power, shooting too many quick flash burst can burn out your flash head.

Now, go out there and take some pictures!

Dennis

[Gatorboy]

Originally Posted by dmwierz

Careful! Even at reduced power, shooting too many quick flash burst can burn out your flash head.

The point I was trying to make was I wouldn't be concerned going from 1/32 to 1/16 as far as recycling goes.

[djkk9]

Use the monopod and mount the flash upside down on the monopod about 24 inches from the camera body. With the off camera flash cable, the flash is still ETTL with the camera. This placement will reduce the red eye effect and also light up under the face masks of the helmets.
Hope this is of help.

[montanafan]

dmwierz, thank you for taking the time to give me such good detailed advice. Because of that I've decided to use the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 lens and start out with f/2.8, ISO 800 (instead of 1600), set Custom Function #3 to auto/slow sync, use the 430EX flash with the bracket above the lens and set to ETTL and +1 FEC (I'm assuming I only have to set that on the flash and not the camera as well?), and check the histogram at different parts of the field. I'm no expert at using the histogram, but I do have a good idea of what I can work with when I see the results on it. I usually lean toward slightly underexposed because I know I can usually work with those in Photoshop, but with the ghosting problems I had before, I know I'll have to be a little more careful about that.

I'll experiment with the flash some using it at manual and 1/16 and 1/4 depending on where the play is on the field because though I don't shoot long bursts, I do like to have the option of getting off two or three shots close together on a play without having to worry about recycling time. I tried shooting a few plays in ETTL last time (without any FEC) and if I took three shots in a row the first would be exposed correctly, on the second one the flash would not fire, and on the third one it did again.

I'll take the monopod, but I don't have another flexible mount besides the ballhead one, so I'll mount it directly on the camera and shoot with it some in landscape, and then go to the camera shop this weekend and get another mount. I did some research and found some good ways to hold the monopod and stabilize it much better than I was doing before, so hopefully that will make a big difference.

I have Custom Function #5 set to 0, and I was shooting in AI Servo, so it's good to know that there was nothing wrong with the AF assist light not illuminating.

Thanks again, and hopefully I'll be able to come back here after Friday and post some photos showing how well it all worked.

Gatorboy, thanks, I'll experiment some with 1/16 on manual at the right points on the field and see how that works out for recycle times. I'm not too worried about it overwhelming the flash because I don't shoot more than two or three at a time.

djkk9, thanks, I've read some about mounting the flash on the monopod below the camera and liked the look of the results. I don't have enough time to set it up for tomorrow night's game, but if I do better using a monopod at that game, I'll look into getting what I need to give it a try before the season's over in a few weeks.

[Gatorboy]

Originally Posted by montanafan

I'll take the monopod, but I don't have another flexible mount besides the ballhead one, so I'll mount it directly on the camera and shoot with it some in landscape, and then go to the camera shop this weekend and get another mount.

Doesn't your Sigma have a collar to mount it to the monopod directly?

[montanafan]

Gatorboy, yep I'd forgotten about that until I read your post. Since I never use a monopod, I'd just tossed it a closet.

I wish I had some great success to post about, but I got to the field with the flash bracket and monopod and got everything set up and then found that I'd left my sync cord at the house, so I had to shoot with the lens on the hotshoe. I ended up with lots of red-eye again. Shooting with the flash on ETTL and +1 FEC worked pretty well, but killed me on recycle times. I shot some with the flash on manual and 1/16 instead of 1/32 and that was okay for recycle time, but gave me ghosting when the play was too far out.

I have two weeks now until the next game and the sync cord is already in the bag, so hopefully I'll be ready next time.

Thanks again to everyone again for the advice.