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Old 17th of October 2007 (Wed)   #1
AnthonyD
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Default INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Hi First off if I am posting this in the wrong place please excuse me. My question is I am just getting into photgraphy . I have an EOS 30D . I am looking for a printer . I remember reading that sub dye printers are best is this true and does Canon have a printer that will result in prints that look like and last as long as those of a sub dye ? Thank you in advance Anthony
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Old 17th of October 2007 (Wed)   #2
R Hardman
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Dye sub seems to have limited amount of media you can run through a specific brand/model where ink jets have a wider selection of media. Dye used to be what you printed if you wanted archival prints lasting decades but ink technology really has closed the gap on this. Canon used to sell dye sub but I have not seen any advertisements in over a year. I'm sure there will be more posts on this subject from more experianced printers then me. Welcome to the forums and photography!
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #3
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Look here http://www.imagingspectrum.com/home.php

These guys sell dye subs and all the supplies.

Dye subs can print VERY nice 4x6, 5x7 etc in like 8-10 seconds. Dye subs use print packs of specific paper and a ribbon at the same rate so buying and replacing the items can be predicted to a very close "price per" margin.

Dye sublimation is what most of the mall booths, event photographers and such use, because you get prints like instantly, and they arent wet.

They are awesome, but it really depends on purpose. it is true that a high end inkjet can give you a better print than a regular quality dye sub, but sometimes speed matters more than the finest quality.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #4
Jon, The Elder
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Anthony.....I have been using Dye Sublimation printers for the last 5 years or so. I use Hi-Touch technologies (http://www.hitouchimaging.com/).

Primary advantages have been mentioned previously. Remember that Dye Sub (not Sub Dye) printing is continous tone so there is no 'dots-per-inch' comparison.

I have run thousands of prints through both of my units with out problems.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #5
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

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Anthony.....I have been using Dye Sublimation printers for the last 5 years or so. I use Hi-Touch technologies (http://www.hitouchimaging.com/).
Jon - which of their printers do you use? I've been casually looking for a dye sub printer that can do 8x10 prints that I would sell on the job site. The two that were around a couple of years ago (Kodak 8500 and Olympus P400) don't seem to be on the market lately.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #6
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Thank you all for your help and advice, it is much appreciated ! Regards Anthony
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #7
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Beware that dye sublimation technology can have the 'fatal' flaw that stored improperly, they images can fade quite fast! Put a dye sub print in a PVC clear 'protector' (which also causes photocopies to stick to the protector) and your prints will fade and discolor. This is based upon having had a close relationship with more than one dye sublimation vendor for healthcare purposes and learning of the limiations/cautions.

Furthermore, dye sub uses a 'color print ribbon' for transfer of the color to dye sub media. The 'ribbon' for one photo is typically 3 sections of color (cyan, yellow, magenta) and black. If you print a photo that is dominantly a single color, the other two color sections are effectively wasted.
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Last edited by Wilt : 18th of October 2007 (Thu) at 14:06.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #8
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

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Beware that dye sublimation technology can have the 'fatal' flaw that stored improperly, they images can fade quite fast! Put a dye sub print in a PVC clear 'protector' (which also causes photocopies to stick to the protector) and your prints will fade and discolor. This is based upon having had a close relationship with more than one dye sublimation vendor for healthcare purposes and learning of the limiations/cautions.

Furthermore, dye sub uses a 'color print ribbon' for transfer of the color to dye sub media. The 'ribbon' for one photo is typically 3 sections of color (cyan, yellow, magenta) and black. If you print a photo that is dominantly a single color, the other two color sections are effectively wasted.
Wilt, I fully understand the media issue you mention. There is, obviously, a fixed cost per print.

The one question that I have never gotten a reliable answer to is how one can expect the prints to last in a normal environment. Consider the home, some sunlight, putting the prints behind glass in a frame, etc.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #9
Jon, The Elder
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Skip....I still haven't found a good 8x10 Dye Sub unit as yet.

I use a 730PS and a 640PS Hi-Touch for the other sizes.

Fortunately, I live near a very good Costco, which works out for my larger prints.

As for longevity of prints, I can only vouch for 5 years so far on the Dye Sub. As I am approaching 69 years on the planet, I'm not as concerned about prints as I am about digital files.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #10
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

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Originally Posted by SkipD View Post
Wilt, I fully understand the media issue you mention. There is, obviously, a fixed cost per print.

The one question that I have never gotten a reliable answer to is how one can expect the prints to last in a normal environment. Consider the home, some sunlight, putting the prints behind glass in a frame, etc.
Skip, back in the 80's when I was involved with dye sub prints for medical care industry, I hung some Sony dye sub prints on my office wall for longevity testing. They had noticeably faded within a year or two or three (foggy memory, too long ago). Those that were stored in the dark (drawer) looked fine in that same time. I also had put some in PVC sleeves, and those noticeably deteriorated, too!
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #11
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Dye sub no longer equals the print quality of the best inkjets IMHO (when I say best I mean pricey too) , and of course they have far less flexibility in papers etc.

They do have some strong pluses though, but for most people getting into photography, a good solid mid range inkjet would be a better choice, particularly if you have ideas of printing your own framed art.

Last edited by CyberDyneSystems : 18th of October 2007 (Thu) at 17:34.
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #12
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

My pet peeve about inkjet is that large black areas 'float' on the surface of the paper for pigment-based prints!

Send them out for good conventional prints on Fuji Crystal...60 year longevity
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #13
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilt View Post
My pet peeve about inkjet is that large black areas 'float' on the surface of the paper for pigment-based prints!

Send them out for good conventional prints on Fuji Crystal...60 year longevity
I tend to agree with the conventional printing for long-term quality if the dye-sub prints don't do any better than y'all are reporting.

Unfortunately, a plan I have been trying to formulate for some part-time income is shooting large groups (class reunions, etc.) and making prints right there to sell. If I can't produce a worthwhile (as in something that will last) print, that sorta blows that part of my idea up.

Maybe in five years or so when I plan to retire there may be a better printing technology that can be portable. Of course, if I could take a Fuji machine to the job site, it would be really easy .
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #14
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

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Originally Posted by SkipD View Post
I tend to agree with the conventional printing for long-term quality if the dye-sub prints don't do any better than y'all are reporting.

Unfortunately, a plan I have been trying to formulate for some part-time income is shooting large groups (class reunions, etc.) and making prints right there to sell. If I can't produce a worthwhile (as in something that will last) print, that sorta blows that part of my idea up.

Maybe in five years or so when I plan to retire there may be a better printing technology that can be portable. Of course, if I could take a Fuji machine to the job site, it would be really easy .
Skip, does the phrase "Take the money and run" sound familiar?

Knowing what I know about dye sub, unless they really improved the technology in the past 10 years, I wouldn't bother buying a printer, much less sell the prints!
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Old 18th of October 2007 (Thu)   #15
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Default Re: INK JET OR SUB DYE PRINTER

Well, it does not appear that dye sub has improved all that much. In this test, it is worse than even the worst of the injets for resistance to fade...

http://pixinfo.com/en/articles/fade-...nce-test-2007/
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