Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies. Read More.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 25 Oct 2007 (Thursday) 01:00
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Canon Speedlite 580EX II and High speed sync

 
Dockland
Member
Avatar
195 posts
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Sweden
     
Oct 25, 2007 01:00 |  #1

Ive just ordered a Canon Speedlite 580EX II to my 40D and have read a little about High speed sync on flash. How does that work?
Can I take a picture @ 1/8000 and still get flash sync? I thought it was lockt to max 1/250? Can someone explain the benefits and pros and cons.

Thanks

Tim


Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS 5D MkII, Canon EF 24-105 f/4 L IS USM , Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS USM, Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro IS USM, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EX II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
cdifoto
Don't get pissy with me
Avatar
34,039 posts
Likes: 12
Joined Dec 2005
     
Oct 25, 2007 01:02 |  #2

You can shoot at 1/8000th but you'll have virtually NO range left, so you'll probably never do that. There's not much reason to anyway.


Did you lose Digital Photo Professional (DPP)? Get it here (external link). Cursing at your worse-than-a-map reflector? Check out this vid! (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
twofruitz
Senior Member
Avatar
840 posts
Joined Oct 2007
Location: AUSTRALIA
     
Oct 25, 2007 01:02 |  #3

There is a mode with a H next to the flash symbol which fires the flash during the shutter release. I am not sure about the workings of it, but I used flash for tennis photos last week at about 1/2000 and they seemed to be evenly lit.


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
NewattheGame
Senior Member
Avatar
857 posts
Joined Feb 2007
Location: A Scot living in Malaysia
     
Oct 25, 2007 01:13 |  #4

By selecting the high speed synch setting, the flash will synch at any shutter speed but its range will fall away dramatically as shutter speed increases. Below 250 the flash pulses between shutter opening and closing (or when the leading blade opens and before the traling blade closes). Above 250 the shutter is already closing before the full flash output is delivered, this limits its range? More knowledgable people can verify?


Always check the background first
flickr.com/photos/pete​ssnaps

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dockland
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
195 posts
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Sweden
     
Oct 25, 2007 01:28 |  #5

This seems to be a nice feture. Ive looked at photos on this forum, a lot of portraits is awesome with settings around 1/8000 high speed sync in fill flash enviroment. That was the main reason that I decided to buy this external flash.


Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS 5D MkII, Canon EF 24-105 f/4 L IS USM , Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS USM, Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro IS USM, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EX II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
SkipD
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
20,471 posts
Likes: 151
Joined Dec 2002
Location: Southeastern WI, USA
     
Oct 25, 2007 06:40 |  #6

Dockland wrote in post #4187442 (external link)
Ive just ordered a Canon Speedlite 580EX II to my 40D and have read a little about High speed sync on flash. How does that work?
Can I take a picture @ 1/8000 and still get flash sync? I thought it was lockt to max 1/250? Can someone explain the benefits and pros and cons.

For you to understand "high speed sync", you first need to understand the concept of the focal plane shutter and the "max sync speed". At the end of this explanation I get back to the "high speed sync" thing.

Focal plane shutters (common on SLR cameras) consist of two "curtains", usually made of rubberized cloth (in old film cameras) or very thin metal. The first curtain (which I will call the "leading" curtain) normally covers the film or sensor, hiding it from the light coming through the lens. When you take a photo, the leading curtain moves across the film/sensor to expose it to the light. After the leading curtain has moved, another curtain (which I will call the "trailing" curtain) starts to move, again covering the film/sensor to hide the light from it.

At shutter speeds below the "Max Sync Speed", the leading curtain travels all the way across the film/sensor, fully opening the film/sensor to the light, before the trailing curtain starts to move. At higher shutter speeds, the trailing curtain starts to move before the leading curtain has completely travelled across the film/sensor. What happens to create the very fast "shutter speeds" is that an open slot between the two curtains travels across the film/sensor.

While old focal plane shutters (like in my Nikon F cameras from the 1960's) travelled horizontally, the shutters in most modern SLR's travel across the short distance of the film/sensor frame. The concept of "curtains" turns into one of "blades", but the travel concept is still the same. The leading blade moves first, uncovering the film/sensor, and the trailing blade follows, covering up the film/sensor.

The advantage of the blade style of focal plane shutter is that it can move across the whole film/sensor area faster than the old style curtains. Thus, the maximum sync speed is higher than in the old cameras (max 1/60 for my old Nikon F's, and 1/250 for the 20D).

The concept of a maximum sync speed, however, still applies. If you try to use a flash at higher shutter speeds (faster than the shutter speed at which the leading curtain/blade is fully open before the trailing curtain/blade starts to move), part of the film/sensor will be covered by one or the other of the curtains/blades when the flash (with a very short duration) goes off. Part of the film/sensor will not "see" the light from the flash, and that part of the image will be either black or very dark.

In the "high speed sync" mode, Speedlites emit a series of very short pulses of light for a long enough period to emulate a constant light source while the focal plane shutter moves across the film/sensor. The power output of the Speedlite is very low during the "high speed sync" operation because if it was putting out high power pulses it could not recycle fast enough.

The only use for "high speed sync" that makes any sense to me is for using the flash as a fill in an otherwise very brightly lit situation.


Skip Douglas
A few cameras and over 50 years behind them .....
..... but still learning all the time.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
martinsmith
Senior Member
Avatar
679 posts
Joined Jul 2007
Location: S Glos, UK
     
Oct 25, 2007 07:20 |  #7

Great flash....bit pricey. I've not regretted buying mine, but the bargain was my 2nd hand Noink unit.


[SIZE=1]ms-imaging (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Dockland
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
Avatar
195 posts
Joined Nov 2005
Location: Sweden
     
Oct 25, 2007 08:14 as a reply to  @ martinsmith's post |  #8

Thank you all and special thanks to SkipD for exellent explanation.


Canon EOS 60D, Canon EOS 5D MkII, Canon EF 24-105 f/4 L IS USM , Canon EF 70-200mm f/4 L IS USM, Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L Macro IS USM, Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon Speedlite 580EX II

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Inspired ­ Photography
Goldmember
Avatar
2,096 posts
Joined Jun 2005
Location: Central Coast, NSW, Australia
     
Oct 25, 2007 08:40 |  #9

Awesome post Skip, nice one.

As others have said... try and avoid High Speed Sync unless you really need it.

Rob


Robert Bell - Inspired Photography (formerly "Inspired Graphix" [and "Shooter-Boy" a long time ago])
Inspired Photography (external link)
email: info@inspiredphotograp​hy.net.au (external link) (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sfaust
Goldmember
Avatar
2,304 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Nov 2006
     
Oct 25, 2007 21:38 |  #10

While I also recommend to avoid high speed sync anytime you need more than a fill effect, I highly recommend to use high speed sync for fill flash effects when you also want to use wider aptertures to soften the background. It works perfectly in that scenario.


Stephen
Commercial Photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
René ­ Damkot
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
39,856 posts
Likes: 5
Joined Feb 2005
Location: enschede, netherlands
     
Oct 26, 2007 00:50 |  #11

cdifoto wrote in post #4187455 (external link)
You can shoot at 1/8000th but you'll have virtually NO range left, so you'll probably never do that. There's not much reason to anyway.

That's a bit exagerated... ;)


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpace (external link)
Get Colormanaged (external link)
Twitter (external link)
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
A.S.I.G.N. ­ Observatory
...For the future of mankind
Avatar
2,435 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 642
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
     
Jul 22, 2011 05:36 |  #12

I have been turning on the high speed sync on the back of my 580EXII with the little lightning bolt H button on the rear. The same lightning bolt and little H appears on the 580 display. I've tried shutter speeds faster than 1/200th of a second on my 5D MK II.

There is STILL a black portion of the photo.

WHY?


Builds By Baz website http://www.buildsbybaz​.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
AntonLargiader
Goldmember
Avatar
1,825 posts
Joined Oct 2010
Location: Charlottesville, VA
     
Jul 22, 2011 06:13 |  #13

Possibly there's a contact problem between the flash and the hotshoe? Your actions seem correct. In fact, I don't think there's anything you can actually do to create banding with a properly functioning camera and Canon ETTL flash. The camera just won't allow it; the shutter speed will drop automatically to sync speed. At least, it does on my T2i.

I'm thinking that the camera doesn't know the flash is there, because otherwise it would either limit itself to 1/250 or else tell the flash when to fire in order to expose the whole frame. Sounds like the flash is firing from the center hotshoe pin, and not via the stuff that communicates things like HSS and 2nd curtain sync.


T2i . 18-55 IS . 70-300 IS USM . 70-200 2.8L IS . 28mm 1.8 . 100 Macro . 430EX II . TT1/TT5 . Bogen/Manfrotto 3021 w/3265 ball-mount

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John ­ Sheehy
Goldmember
2,287 posts
Likes: 243
Joined Jan 2010
     
Jul 22, 2011 06:22 |  #14

Dockland wrote in post #4187442 (external link)
Ive just ordered a Canon Speedlite 580EX II to my 40D and have read a little about High speed sync on flash. How does that work?
Can I take a picture @ 1/8000 and still get flash sync? I thought it was lockt to max 1/250? Can someone explain the benefits and pros and cons.

Basically, it is just a fast-flashing strobe light during the period of exposure. Rather than waiting for both shutter curtains to be open and then making one short blast, it pulse the entire time from when the first curtain starts to move, until the sensor is covered again.

It is nothing more than extra light, as it does not stop action at all; only your shutter speed does. If something is moving very fast lengthwise in the frame, it will skew, just like with ambient light at high shutter speeds.

The guide number decreases tremendously as you increase the shutter speed. At 1/8000, you will only see much of a flash influence at high ISOs, wide apertures, and/or close subject distances.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
A.S.I.G.N. ­ Observatory
...For the future of mankind
Avatar
2,435 posts
Gallery: 15 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 642
Joined Aug 2008
Location: Canberra, Australia
     
Jul 22, 2011 06:24 |  #15

AntonLargiader wrote in post #12803373 (external link)
Possibly there's a contact problem between the flash and the hotshoe? Your actions seem correct. In fact, I don't think there's anything you can actually do to create banding with a properly functioning camera and Canon ETTL flash. The camera just won't allow it; the shutter speed will drop automatically to sync speed. At least, it does on my T2i.

I'm thinking that the camera doesn't know the flash is there, because otherwise it would either limit itself to 1/250 or else tell the flash when to fire in order to expose the whole frame. Sounds like the flash is firing from the center hotshoe pin, and not via the stuff that communicates things like HSS and 2nd curtain sync.

That was it exactly!!! I took the flash off the hotshoe, put it back on, secured it and gave it a bit of a wiggle. Now it works. Thanks heaps mate!

Just took a photo at 1/320 sec and NO banding! Awesome sauce.

Baz.


Builds By Baz website http://www.buildsbybaz​.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

11,998 views & 0 likes for this thread
Canon Speedlite 580EX II and High speed sync
FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.0forum software
version 2.0 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is HBGPhotos
744 guests, 461 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.