MARKETPLACE CHANGES

[Permagrin]

Originally Posted by bauerman

POTN does have the propensity, at times, to be a bit over-moderated when compared to similar and also well functioning photography sites......I have surely seen that.

and yet, for the most part, this is the most friendly site around...never forget that moderation has many benefits. It keeps things on track and keeps the trolls out, making it a very pleasant place to peruse.

For one, I'm thankful for the mods around here. I've seen many other forums degenerate to useless wranglings and abusive tactics....this one isn't like that. When things get muddy, they tidy it up. It isn't over moderated, it's actually just moderated. Where things are ooc (I'm referring to other forums here), it isn't moderated at all. If POTN were over moderated, then many people would be banned after abusing the mods themselves (which sadly is happening on a frequent basis these days) right away, but instead they are given warning after warning re: their behavior.

In general (not in response to bauerman) we seem to forget that if we don't like the rules, hammering the ones that make them won't do us any good. It's okay to say "I would like to see this changed" but it's not okay to attack. It's also okay to go elsewhere if you don't like it and it doesn't change.

I wonder sometimes where we (people in general) get the idea that if we say the same things over and over, louder or with more personal abuse added each time, that it will actually accomplish the goal that we set out to accomplish?

This is the solution that they've come up with for the marketplace. Do I wish it was different? Personally, yes. Will I live within the confines? Yes. If not I'll sell on ebay or elsewhere...

This is a free site and has good people running it. Give 'em a break. If you don't like it, sell elsewhere and enjoy the things around here that you do like.

[Permagrin]

Originally Posted by condyk

I really see we need some fresh blood in the moderation team if this is the limit of the vision you guys have. Seriously. You have the interests of all at heart but maybe you just need some more creative thought applied to some the challenges that are emerging as the forum community grows.

Just because you don't like how it's done, it's defined as limited in vision? oh please

[condyk]

Not just me ... read the thread and count. If asinine acceptance of any change that is is proposed here, or in any community, is how you see progress being driven then you are showing your ignorance. I really don't believe Pekka or any mods want that. They want a community. Some people care enought to raise a voice. Some don't. That's life.

We will no doubt see how it all shakes down with the next forum upgrade. And we will see how the decisions pan out with those changes in place As long as the less savvy people are protected and folks also get chance to actually view adverts they may be interested in then I am happy. Time will tell.

[Permagrin]

Originally Posted by condyk

Not just me ... read the thread and count. If asinine acceptance of any change that is is proposed here, or in any community, is how you see progress being driven then you are showing your ignorance. I really don't believe Pekka or any mods want that. They want a community. Some people care enought to raise a voice. Some don't. That's life.

You know Dave, acceptance of a situation that isn't going to change isn't ignorant. It saves a lot of effort in the whining and complaining department. I've already stated my objection. Once. It is enough. What I find as progress and what you see as progress are totally different. And while I do not intend to impose my viewpoint on you, I certainly do not subscribe to your view. And I believe that ignorance is only found where one viewpoint is chosen and stood upon, regardless of the facts surrounding it.

This isn't your house, it's a place you visit. My point, be respectful of the owners and offer your opinions but then "for the sake of the community that you say you respect" move on.

[Pete]

Can we simply accept the fact that things will change in the next release of the forum software and simply live with the current rules until then?

I'm sure that we all want the best for the B&S section, and things will get better. Let's just take stock of what features are in the next version and go from there.

[taygull]

Originally Posted by Permagrin

You know Dave, acceptance of a situation that isn't going to change isn't ignorant. It saves a lot of effort in the whining and complaining department. I've already stated my objection. Once. It is enough. What I find as progress and what you see as progress are totally different. And while I do not intend to impose my viewpoint on you, I certainly do not subscribe to your view. And I believe that ignorance is only found where one viewpoint is chosen and stood upon, regardless of the facts surrounding it.

This isn't your house, it's a place you visit. My point, be respectful of the owners and offer your opinions but then "for the sake of the community that you say you respect" move on.

I think this is very funny....you have so much confidence in the changes of the marketplace that you have a huge banner in your signature selling something.....I guess if the for sale section worked then you would not need the banner.......

[Permagrin]

Originally Posted by taygull

I think this is very funny....you have so much confidence in the changes of the marketplace that you have a huge banner in your signature selling something.....I guess if the for sale section worked then you would not need the banner.......

actually, I find it a useful way to promote my ad w/o disobeying the rules...it works And doesn't cause any issues.

edit: and if you will read my post again, you will see that I have already voiced my opinion (way down on this thread) about the changes. I'm sure they were read. It won't do any good to keep voicing them, regardless of the outcome.

[Tom W]

I think we should all go outside tonight and check the planet alignment**. Three things have happened in the last few days that might seem unusual.

First, I'm in agreement with Condyk.
Second, I've opened an ebay account after claiming I'd never do so.
Third, I've opened a paypal account after claiming I'd never do so.

** -
When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
...

[TeamSpeed]

So with the new pending version of vbulletin, what I am reading is that there still won't be any bumps or replies of any kind, even the owner, correct?

Also the point was made that mods will then be able to view the changes to the original post, correct?

I don't know why that is so important if there are no replies and thus no bumps. The point was made prior that people were modifying their original post with a higher price, then bumping with a "lower price", and you want to catch that. If the answer is yes to the first question, then why is it so important to see the changes to the original post?

Is there, or has there been an issue where somebody changed the actual contents description after the sale, thus basically "scamming" the buyer? If not, I am not sure why it is so important for mods to see all changes made to the original post, when it won't matter what the price is, or was, since price changes or edits won't bump the thread.

Just a question that came to mind, as I went back through and read the pertinent complaints and answers.

==============

As an example brought up by others, I also believe the FM model actually works quite well, folks bump once a day if they are even around anymore to sell their items (for those that just spam all the forums at once and then never really come back), and questions still arise and are answered, and posts can be modified, etc.

It actually does seem to work well, with some abusers of the daily bump rule, when they disregard the fact that they already replied with more info to an inquisitive buyer, then 2 hours later bump their thread for the daily bump, but what can you do? Nobody is really actively moderating that forum anyways, it seems to be running on the honor system, with the only hard and fast rule is that Fred will ban anybody price policing.

[tommykjensen]

Originally Posted by TeamSpeed

Is there, or has there been an issue where somebody changed the actual contents description after the sale, thus basically "scamming" the buyer?

Yes there has been very recently.

[TeamSpeed]

Originally Posted by tommykjensen

Yes there has been very recently.

Ah, then that fills in the missing piece of the puzzle for the interest in the next version of vbulletin, thank you. Another reason to always quote the original thread if you are buying the item, and wanted to post a "Payment Sent" message, at least in other forums, since this won't be allowed anymore here.

[taygull]

Originally Posted by Permagrin

actually, I find it a useful way to promote my ad w/o disobeying the rules...it works And doesn't cause any issues.

edit: and if you will read my post again, you will see that I have already voiced my opinion (way down on this thread) about the changes. I'm sure they were read. It won't do any good to keep voicing them, regardless of the outcome.

I think I'm going to have to try that now, and it doesn't violate the rules!

[tommykjensen]

Well lets see what the rules has to say about that:

Originally Posted by Rules 3.8

User signature should go into the dedicated signature box and NOT in the actual post. Signature must not contain large fonts or distractive elements.

Please both of you reduce the font size.

[Pekka]

Guys, if you place a forsale "support ad" to your signature (which is fine and an effective way to market your ad, if you have 10,000 posts you get instantly 10,000 support ads), it must be a link to your post in http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...splay.php?f=14. Else it is simply an advertisement (see Advertising in signatures). Also, please make the sig less obtrusive - we run out of screen space here.

[TeamSpeed]

Ha, did a mod just make a change to the Sale forum? I noticed the sort order appears to be different now, aka, by creation date?