Do they feel the pain as we do??

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

I was outside and heard something falling and found this beetle lying on his back after coming off the wall. You can see the dent. When I came back and started to take pics, I noticed that his front, right hand side leg was missing a segment. I wonder if they feel the pain of the loss as we do??

I think this is one of the Psammodes beetles (Toktokkies), but cannot find a name again.

LordV · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

LOvely beetle capture Joan.
Re insects feeling pain - difficult to answer - they do respond to stimuli so have nerve receptors but suspect it's more of a - there's something going on with my leg response rather than pain we would interpret - they just get on with it and grow a new leg rather than our response which is to say that blxxdy hurts and either lay still or roll around in agony. Think the official answer seems to revolve around higher animals having a specialist area of the brain where "pain" is interpreted/handled - insects are missing this brain structure. This is really just a different interpretation of the same signals indicating "bad". Insects are often though to be similar to simple robots- they have hard wired responses to stimuli whereas we have a small amount of hard wired response plus a large amount of learnt response to a stimulus.

Brian V.

macro junkie · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

not sure but when they loose a leg not sure about beatles but mantids can live fine with 1 leg missing..if they loose it when there young it grows back after a few sheds..great pic.

racketman · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

I am sure Brian is right - check out footage of ant wars - notice some have been bitten in two but fight on; if they do feel pain then they are hard bast...s

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Brian

Quote:

LOvely beetle capture Joan.
Insects are often though to be similar to simple robots- they have hard wired responses to stimuli whereas we have a small amount of hard wired response plus a large amount of learnt response to a stimulus.

Thanks Brian, this was very informative and I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Macro junkie

Quote:

not sure but when they loose a leg not sure about beatles but mantids can live fine with 1 leg missing..if they loose it when there young it grows back after a few sheds..great pic.

Thanks MJ. I know some insects do grow missing parts again, but was not sure if they actually felt pain.

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Toby

Quote:

I am sure Brian is right - check out footage of ant wars - notice some have been bitten in two but fight on; if they do feel pain then they are hard bast...s

Thanks Toby. I have seen ant fights too that seem to go on forever. Maybe we need that part of our brain remove or changed too.

This is for the next time I catch my thumb in a door.

LindaB · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Lovely photo of it Joan - looks like it suffered a dent too lol.

Linda

PS - cant remem if I said, but my sister thoroughly enjoyed the second part of their hols at Victoria Falls (I have yet to see her pics). Local wildlife was abundant!

I hope to be back posting pics soon - been busy loading up a new pc, drivers and next step software lol. The brain is suffering a bit now lol.

Linda

Mike4BekA · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Nice shot Joan........being as I am part insect I do feel pain and so do they lol jk

You raise a very good question for us to think about!

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Linda

Quote:

Lovely photo of it Joan - looks like it suffered a dent too lol.

Linda

PS - cant remem if I said, but my sister thoroughly enjoyed the second part of their hols at Victoria Falls (I have yet to see her pics). Local wildlife was abundant!

I hope to be back posting pics soon - been busy loading up a new pc, drivers and next step software lol. The brain is suffering a bit now lol.

Thanks Linda. I am glad your sister enjoyed her trip even though it was such a quick one. Sounds like you are bust too with a new PC.

Photogirl2007 · 8th of March 2008 (Sat)

Mike

Quote:

Nice shot Joan........being as I am part insect I do feel pain and so do they lol jk

You raise a very good question for us to think about!

Thanks Mike. I wonder which part of you is insect??

dpastern · 9th of March 2008 (Sun)

I suspect Brian is right also - insects are a lot tougher than humans in many respects.

Dave

Photogirl2007 · 9th of March 2008 (Sun)

Thanks Dave. I guess it helps havig so many legs as it helps out when you loose one.

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#1
Photogirl2007 Goldmember Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: South Africa Posts: 2,600	Do they feel the pain as we do?? I was outside and heard something falling and found this beetle lying on his back after coming off the wall. You can see the dent. When I came back and started to take pics, I noticed that his front, right hand side leg was missing a segment. I wonder if they feel the pain of the loss as we do?? I think this is one of the Psammodes beetles (Toktokkies), but cannot find a name again. __________________ Joan Young http://saphotographs.blogspot.com/ http://natureswow.com

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#2
LordV Macro Photo-Lord of the Year 2006 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Worthing UK Posts: 45,945 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? LOvely beetle capture Joan. Re insects feeling pain - difficult to answer - they do respond to stimuli so have nerve receptors but suspect it's more of a - there's something going on with my leg response rather than pain we would interpret - they just get on with it and grow a new leg rather than our response which is to say that blxxdy hurts and either lay still or roll around in agony. Think the official answer seems to revolve around higher animals having a specialist area of the brain where "pain" is interpreted/handled - insects are missing this brain structure. This is really just a different interpretation of the same signals indicating "bad". Insects are often though to be similar to simple robots- they have hard wired responses to stimuli whereas we have a small amount of hard wired response plus a large amount of learnt response to a stimulus. Brian V. __________________ http://www.flickr.com/photos/lordv/ http://www.lordv.smugmug.com/ Macro Hints and tips http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=807056 Canon 20D, Canon 40D, Canon 5D mk2, Sigma 105mm EX macro, Tamron 90mm macro, Canon MPE-65,18-55 kit lens X2, canon 200mm F2.8 L, Tamron 28-70mm xrdi, Other assorted bits

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#3
macro junkie Cream of the Crop Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Somerset - UK Posts: 6,709 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? not sure but when they loose a leg not sure about beatles but mantids can live fine with 1 leg missing..if they loose it when there young it grows back after a few sheds..great pic. __________________ Uk prayingmantis forum - http://www.dragonscrest.co.uk/forums/index.php My flickr gallery -http://www.flickr.com/photos/hooked_on_macro/ DA Gallery where i sell prints - http://macrojunkie.deviantart.com/ MPE-65MM - MT-24EX Twin Macro Flash (diffused with 2 X Gary Fong Puffer diffuser) EF-S 60mm f2.8 USM - 430ex (diffused with lumeriqest soft box)

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#4
racketman Cream of the Crop Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Richmond Surrey Posts: 18,459 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? I am sure Brian is right - check out footage of ant wars - notice some have been bitten in two but fight on; if they do feel pain then they are hard bast...s __________________ Toby Flickr collections Gear

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#8
LindaB Cream of the Crop Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Surrey (UK) Posts: 8,137 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? Lovely photo of it Joan - looks like it suffered a dent too lol. Linda PS - cant remem if I said, but my sister thoroughly enjoyed the second part of their hols at Victoria Falls (I have yet to see her pics). Local wildlife was abundant! I hope to be back posting pics soon - been busy loading up a new pc, drivers and next step software lol. The brain is suffering a bit now lol. Linda __________________ http://lindabuckell.zenfolio.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/dragonwings55/ Canon 7D \|40D \|G12 \| 350d (300D long gone) 400 F5.6L\|70-200 F4L IS\|24-105 F4L IS\|18-55 Macro: 100mm F2.8L IS\|100mm\| F2.8 \|60mm F2.8.

8th of March 2008 (Sat)	#9
Mike4BekA Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Carolina Posts: 1,323	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? Nice shot Joan........being as I am part insect I do feel pain and so do they lol jk You raise a very good question for us to think about! __________________ Canon Rebel XTICanon Kit Lens 18-55Sigma 70-300 DG APOCanon 100mm 2.8 USM MacroCanon 430 EXKenko Tubes (Lost in Mail forever) www.flickr.com/mdcphoto

9th of March 2008 (Sun)	#12
dpastern User is banned from forums Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ipswich, Queensland, Australia Posts: 13,765 IMAGE EDITING OK	Re: Do they feel the pain as we do?? I suspect Brian is right also - insects are a lot tougher than humans in many respects. Dave

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