40d vs 450d price

[bluedna]

"Pricing" shouldn't be the main element used to determine quality. Don't forget marketing use pricing strategies as well.

So just because the 450D is priced similar to the 40D doesn't make it a superior camera.

[jcumming]

Originally Posted by jimbeam1971

30d to 40d sensor reduced in size with more pixels .im a newibe but reading the above it seams your saying more pixels in the same space reduce quailty ! i wager not .

the 30D sensor size is 22.5 x 15.0mm Digic II
the 40D sensor size is 22.2 x 14.8mm Digic III

plus more pixels in the same space become smaller which adds to noise which adds to picture quality

[mzivtins]

yep. as said before it is the bassics of nano sized circuits. Despite what people think, electrons do NOT travel in one direction around a circuit, and this is what causes the noise, in wires so tiny that 100 out of 1000 electrons go the wrong way then thats a 10% loss in sensativity and conductivity. the way round this is either more expensive materials (1d mkIII) or more in camera noise reduction(450d through the range untill the mkIII)

this is why micro-processors and sensor get so hot, the resistance in the wires due to the nature of the electrons. super conductors allow for the best signal/noise ratio and trabsport efficiency, however the best way to transport electrons is to do it the way nature does... with a gravitational force strong enough to manouver something travelling the speed of light parrallel to the source of the gravitational force.

[fordmondeo]

Originally Posted by mzivtins

yep. as said before it is the bassics of nano sized circuits. Despite what people think, electrons do NOT travel in one direction around a circuit, and this is what causes the noise, in wires so tiny that 100 out of 1000 electrons go the wrong way then thats a 10% loss in sensativity and conductivity. the way round this is either more expensive materials (1d mkIII) or more in camera noise reduction(450d through the range untill the mkIII)

this is why micro-processors and sensor get so hot, the resistance in the wires due to the nature of the electrons. super conductors allow for the best signal/noise ratio and trabsport efficiency, however the best way to transport electrons is to do it the way nature does... with a gravitational force strong enough to manouver something travelling the speed of light parrallel to the source of the gravitational force.

I really doubt canon use cheaper materials for the entry level cameras.
They may CHANGE the materials they use as time and development move on but it's highly un-likely they will use cheaper.

[grimey121uk]

Originally Posted by fordmondeo

I really doubt canon use cheaper materials for the entry level cameras.
They may CHANGE the materials they use as time and development move on but it's highly un-likely they will use cheaper.

so they use same materials for 400d and 1dmk3

[mzivtins]

Originally Posted by fordmondeo

I really doubt canon use cheaper materials for the entry level cameras.
They may CHANGE the materials they use as time and development move on but it's highly un-likely they will use cheaper.

maybe not cheaper... but not as expensive hehehe!

i think if they used the same gates in the sensor of the 1ds mkIII as the 450d, the 1ds mkIII would overheat and destroy itself when you shoot at high implification... well failing that the noise would be crazy! of course this is just me applying other knowledge as a gestimate lol

[fordmondeo]

Originally Posted by grimey121uk

so they use same materials for 400d and 1dmk3

In the sensor production, almost certainly.

[mzivtins]

Originally Posted by grimey121uk

so they use same materials for 400d and 1dmk3

thats what i thought haha... you know they just fold the circuit bored in half etc etc to fit the mkIII's electronic cicuits into the 400d's body mwahahaha! CARNAGE!

oh have a look at pictures of the sensors! you can see HUGE differences between then for every type!

the MKIII is a aps-h sensor... then a FF in th 1ds. then a aps-c sensor in the 40d etc etc, but then even the aps-c in the 450d will be different still to fit the size requirements of the body.

one way to tell is looking at the copper contacts. metal reflects light because it has a SEA of electrons, this is the only type of atom whereby electrons do not orbit the nucleus but instead orbit around the colective of nucleus'... this is why metal is SOOOOO strong! the more shiny the metal surface the bigger the sea of electrons meaning the purer the copper... also meaning much less oxygen in the metal... the sea can flow more efficiently bouncing away any photons the touch the metal and meaning the flow of electrons can go in one direction with very little resistance (change in direction)

its is that easy just by looking at the sensor to see that they are build completely differently

[mzivtins]

Originally Posted by fordmondeo

In the sensor production, almost certainly.

what part of the sensor? we all know the micro-lenses are differ between models... we all know the low-pass filter is different also (different liquids per model for wet cleaning)

[fordmondeo]

This may be of some interest.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/ARTICL...S%20PRIMER.htm

[mzivtins]

cmos sensors vary depending on model using generally these three metals that are used in the production of a sensor.
tungsten, titanium, and tantalum.

[mzivtins]

Originally Posted by fordmondeo

This may be of some interest.

http://www.siliconimaging.com/ARTICL...S%20PRIMER.htm

that is useless. yes it is a semi-conducting metal oxide sensor, but it doesn not tell you specifically what metal oxide is used! because it varies.

[fordmondeo]

Originally Posted by mzivtins

that is useless. yes it is a semi-conducting metal oxide sensor, but it doesn not tell you specifically what metal oxide is used! because it varies.

Sorry, that was not for your benefit.

Can you honestly see canon saying
"Ooooo! that metal oxide works really well, better not put that in sensors for non pro cameras."

I think not somehow!

[mzivtins]

Originally Posted by fordmondeo

Sorry, that was not for your benefit.

Can you honestly see canon saying
"Ooooo! that metal oxide works really well, better not put that in sensors for non pro cameras."

I think not somehow!

haha no. but i can see them thinking.. "oh sh1t... if we make that cameras sensor out of that awesome amazing material, no one owuld buy it because it would be too expensive for the entry level market"

[nicksan]

To the OP.
What are my thoughts?

My thoughts are that you made the correct choice in buying the 40D over the 450D given the price.

The xxxD series is targeted to people who want a little more than a P & S. The xxD series is targeted for the so-called "pro-sumers". Quite obviously the price of the 40D came down from its initial release date although it looks to be retaining its value just fine. The 450D being a freshly released body will sell for its full retail price, just like the other bodies. That's just the way it is. Does it make sense? No. But it's all about consumer perception and Canon is a big corporation afterall. All they care about is the bottom line.

Is the 40D a vastly superior body than the 400D or 450D? IQ-wise it really isn't. What you pay for is the speed, build quality, and ergonimics. That usually appeals to a specific demographic.

As for the 5D, it has come down in price drastically. It is a 2-3 year old body after all and also based on consumer perception. It's a great body and they need to make it appealing by keeping the price down.

You should get whatever that makes you happy, and it's pretty obvious that once you held the 40D in your hands, you knew that was it.