indoor pictures

[drmac]

I am having a problem with shooting indoors... (just family/birthday pictures).

Even if I set my aperature wide open, my shutter speed needs to be so low that I can not handhold the camera.

When I use a flash the shutter speed stays the same...

What am I doing wrong? How do I get the best setting? (I would prefer to handhold the camera...)

Thanks!

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by drmac

I am having a problem with shooting indoors... (just family/birthday pictures).

Even if I set my aperature wide open, my shutter speed needs to be so low that I can not handhold the camera.

When I use a flash the shutter speed stays the same...

What am I doing wrong? How do I get the best setting? (I would prefer to handhold the camera...)

Thanks!

It sounds like you are shooting in Av mode. This mode is not designed to work with the flash as a primary light source. It expects the flash to be for fill-in only and so it still meters for ambient. If it is too dim to handhold without flash in Av, turning on the flash won't help much.

A better approach to using the flash is to shoot in M mode. Simply set the aperture for a reasonable DOF (try f/5.6 to start) and a fast enough shutter speed (say 1/100). Use ISO400 and take some shots. The flash will automatially expose the shot. If you don't like the results you can fine tune the flash exposure by adjusting the Flash Exposure Compensation.

[Mike R]

Can you give specific settings. "wide open" depends on the lens. What flash are you using? (is it the built in or an external one)
Here is a link to a 3 part document on how Canon flash operates. It's well worth printing.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

[drmac]

Originally Posted by Mike R

Can you give specific settings. "wide open" depends on the lens. What flash are you using? (is it the built in or an external one)
Here is a link to a 3 part document on how Canon flash operates. It's well worth printing.

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

XTi
Tamron 18-250 3.5-6.3
Speedlite 580EXII

[Mum2J&M]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

It sounds like you are shooting in Av mode. This mode is not designed to work with the flash as a primary light source. It expects the flash to be for fill-in only and so it still meters for ambient. If it is too dim to handhold without flash in Av, turning on the flash won't help much.

A better approach to using the flash is to shoot in M mode. Simply set the aperture for a reasonable DOF (try f/5.6 to start) and a fast enough shutter speed (say 1/100). Use ISO400 and take some shots. The flash will automatially expose the shot. If you don't like the results you can fine tune the flash exposure by adjusting the Flash Exposure Compensation.

This is interesting. Why is aperture priority this way? I rarely use it, but did not know this useful tidbit. I normally use ETTL with my 430EX, but keep my camera set to shutter priority. Perhaps this is a mistake? I have so much to learn about flash. I love having this forum because I'm learning more every day. Thanks for any further info. (sorry to hijack the thread!)

[René Damkot]

Use high ISO...

Originally Posted by Mum2J&M

This is interesting. Why is aperture priority this way? I rarely use it, but did not know this useful tidbit. I normally use ETTL with my 430EX, but keep my camera set to shutter priority. Perhaps this is a mistake?

Av and Tv use flash as fill. Just a design decision.
I never use Tv, and don't see any advantage in flash photography.
Use either Av or M.

[JeffreyG]

This is interesting. Why is aperture priority this way? I rarely use it, but did not know this useful tidbit. I normally use ETTL with my 430EX, but keep my camera set to shutter priority. Perhaps this is a mistake? I have so much to learn about flash. I love having this forum because I'm learning more every day. Thanks for any further info. (sorry to hijack the thread!)

Both Av and Tv work the same way with flash - they assume the intent is fill-in only and they meter for ambient. If you shoot in really low light with a flash on the camera in Av mode the camera will still select an exposure of several seconds.

Tv can sometimes be tricked into working better with flash, mainly because once it has opened the lens up all the way it starts to underexpose....then E-TTL kicks in and exposes the shot.

The reason Canon does this is that they fully expect you to select M mode when you are shooting with a flash. If Av and Tv modes did not assume "fill-in" then there would be no auto-metered modes that work with fill flash.

BTW, if you never use fill flash you can set one of the custom functions to always set the shutter speed in AV mode = max synch speed when the flash is turned on. On my 5D it is function 3-1.

[Mum2J&M]

Great - thank you so much for that. That would explain a lot of frustration I've had while using my external flash! I will definitely start to try manual - and perhaps use Av when I need fill. I used to only use my pop-up for fill, but I know it's not the best route to take.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Mum2J&M

Great - thank you so much for that. That would explain a lot of frustration I've had while using my external flash! I will definitely start to try manual - and perhaps use Av when I need fill. I used to only use my pop-up for fill, but I know it's not the best route to take.

Pop-up works OK for fill. That's one of the only things the pop-up is good for.

Just be careful the pop-up has enough reach. People are often shooting stopped down and low ISO in the daylight, and they forget that the flash does not care about how sunny it is. Flash reach only cares about Guide Number, Aperture and ISO.

[Mum2J&M]

Originally Posted by JeffreyG

Pop-up works OK for fill. That's one of the only things the pop-up is good for.

Just be careful the pop-up has enough reach. People are often shooting stopped down and low ISO in the daylight, and they forget that the flash does not care about how sunny it is. Flash reach only cares about Guide Number, Aperture and ISO.

So if you're shooting with a wider aperture and a higher ISO the flash would give more power? Sorry, I'm not following.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Mum2J&M

So if you're shooting with a wider aperture and a higher ISO the flash would give more power? Sorry, I'm not following.

Every flash has a Guide Number. The GN of your 430EX is 43 meters for instance (when fully zoomed to the 105mm setting, but I digress). The pop-up flash GN is about 13 meters.

The distance your flash can reach is equal to the GN/Aperture at ISO100. Every two stops higher in ISO doubles the reach.

So f/4 and ISO100 cannot reach more than 11 meters with the 430EX or 3.25 meters with the pop-up.

Where people run into trouble is shooting group shots outside with a pop-up. There you are shooting f/8 and ISO100 because it is so bright out. Pop-up the ol' flash for some fill and become puzzled because it can only illumnate people standing within 1.6 meters (5.5 feet) of the camera.

[Mum2J&M]

Holy cow. I am hauling my 430 around from now on! Now I just need to invest in better batteries. I really think this has helped me to understand a lot about my flash troubles. Thanks again.

[JeffreyG]

Originally Posted by Mum2J&M

Holy cow. I am hauling my 430 around from now on! Now I just need to invest in better batteries. I really think this has helped me to understand a lot about my flash troubles. Thanks again.

Put 4 NiMH rechargeables in it. That's what I use in my 430EX. They have low internal resistance and will cycle the flash way faster than alkalines.

Flash draws lots of power. Disposable batteries are more expensive in the long run. Leave the alkalines for the TV remote and the thermostat.

[Mum2J&M]

Yes, I have those. I believe my husband has stolen them to either put in a toy, or the tv remote. I'll have to steal them back and get four more for back-up.

[lungdoc]

Do yourself a big favour and use Eneloop batteries for your flash - they won't lose charge if sitting in the bag like most NiMH's do.

For indoor flash situations where you want flash as main lighting P mode works well also - shutter speed won't go below 1/60 and flash will be the main lighting. Also for outdoor fill flash in many sunny situations the shutter speed will be higher than the max sync speed of the flash/camera (1/250 for most Canon's) and pictures will be overexposed unless you use high speed sync on the flash (not possible with pop-up flash).