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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk
Thread started 01 Apr 2008 (Tuesday) 16:52
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Our Right To Photograph\Videograph In Public

 
Tumeg
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Apr 01, 2008 16:52 |  #1

I stumbled across this video, and thought it was interesting.
http://current.com ...23_you_can_t_pictur​e_thisexternal link

The security guards in the video, are not official officers, they are Police Community Support Officers, and they have no right to ask for your information, or arrest you.
Things like this make me want to just grab hold of the security guards and knock some sense into them!! This is also how it is in America, and I hope it stops.


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Tumeg
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Apr 01, 2008 19:11 |  #2

Since nobody wants to discuss this, I will go ahead and state my opinion:

I feel that this is a form of discrimination. No I am not a racial person, who is obsessed with finding the smallest signs of discrimination, but this truly is a form of discrimination! Why do they come after people just because they have big cameras? What about those who have small point and shoots?
Like they said in the video, a terrorist wouldn't be using professional equipment, knowing that he stands out. He would use a small point and shoot! Do police harass people using small point and shoots? No.
This also shows how un-informed law enforcement is! (I know this video was in the UK, and they were not REAL officers, but I have read stories about here in the US, where actual police officers have forcefully taken the camera away from the photographer)
Watching this video, just gave me so many things I want to say to the first person to come up to me and question me, or tell me to stop (As long as I am in a public area, with permission if required). I would want to just knock some sense into the person, but I know that would be wrong and possibly get me arrested for assault. But I do, now have many things to say if this happened to me, which it wont because I don't do street photography.

Anyone else have an opinion?


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argyle
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Apr 01, 2008 19:34 |  #3

Tumeg wrote in post #5240883external link
Since nobody wants to discuss this...

Maybe because the topic has been beaten to death over the past several weeks?


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Glenn ­ NK
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Apr 01, 2008 19:49 |  #4

Actually it's been beaten to death for quite some time now, and not just on this forum.

Legality is one thing, but what many of us tend to forget is to use some common sense and courtesy in our photography.

We may have a "right", to shoot, but if we offend, it will not help our case. This applies to any society, country, or jurisdiction.

There was a post started a while back by a young fellow who was yelled at by a cop - and for some reason, I had the feeling that his approach was what got him into trouble even though legally he was likely in the right.

Ever notice that some people can really dress someone else down, and no one feels offended, whereas others just say the simplest thing and it causes over-reactions and hard feelings?

Discretion will go a long way.

Papparazi are probably not a good role model for successful journalistic work.;)


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FlyingPhotog
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Apr 01, 2008 19:54 |  #5

Tumeg wrote in post #5240883external link
...but I have read stories about here in the US, where actual police officers have forcefully taken the camera away from the photographer)

[rant]

Credible cite please? Have you ever seen it happen in the first person or had it happen to you? If so, date and place please?

This is how bad information gets started. Please don't cast these kinds of aspersions out without concrete documentation. It's just flat not fair to law enforcement who are simply trying to do their jobs. Unfortunately, in this day and age, that job isn't anywhere near as carved in stone as it once was.

Car 54 and Adam 12 never had to worry about chemical/biological/nu​clear devices, foriegn and domestic terrorism, illegal immigrants, automatic weapons, drug turf wars and about 101 other things that could snuff a cop in a heartbeat. It ain't your daddy's world anymore and cops won't live long by simply being Muldoon or Malloy and Reed.

And guess what? Just because you're carrying a camera, you are not entitled to any more (or any less) access to anything, anywhere, anytime than the next person who doesn't have a dSLR, P&S, Camera Phone or a clay tablet and a stylus. Simply carrying a camera does not make you a member of the Press.

We aren't perfect in the USofA but we're a damn sight better than a lot of places on the planet where mearly carrying a camera can possibly get you much more than inconvenienced.

[/rant]


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argyle
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Apr 01, 2008 21:04 as a reply to FlyingPhotog's post |  #6

He's just a kid that's repeating something that he found on the internet or heard at school...easy to state 'facts' without backing them up. Must have went to the Hillary Clinton School of Exaggeration. :D


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Tumeg
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Apr 01, 2008 21:28 |  #7

argyle wrote in post #5241615external link
He's just a kid that's repeating something that he found on the internet or heard at school...easy to state 'facts' without backing them up. Must have went to the Hillary Clinton School of Exaggeration. :D

I find that very offensive, seeing as it is off topic and not appropriate for a photography forum.
Yes, I am repeating something I found on the internet, but it is something I agree with. Are you saying, 99% of the people on this forum are "kids, repeating stuff they found on the internet"??? Almost all of the information here, has come from sources on the internet. Should they all be criticized for helping others with a question? Should we all just go around and say "Your just a kid who doesn't know anything, go figure it out on your own" or should we help them, by google'ing to find the answer for them?
Forums and the internet, especially blogging, is for people to state opinions, share information, and of course, socialize (in a sense). Not to be ranted upon because they give an opinion, and want others view/comment on it!
If you don't have anything to contribute to the discussion, then don't post at all. You saying "He's just a kid repeating what he found on the internet.... probably went to Hillary Clinton's school of Exaggeration" has nothing good to add to the discussion, and is offensive to both; people who agree with me, and people who support Hillary Clinton. (No, I do not support Hillary Clinton)
So please, take your pointless, random, and immature comments elsewhere.


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Tumeg
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Apr 01, 2008 21:32 |  #8

argyle wrote in post #5241023external link
Maybe because the topic has been beaten to death over the past several weeks?

See, what was the point of this comment? To get your post count up? To make yourself feel big, powerful, and 'special'?
You could have not posted at all, or have added a small contribution to the topic, and then mention that this has been talked about before. No need to rudely exaggerate(Yes, I took this from your other post) that this topic has been discussed before.
'He is just a kid, who thinks he is cool and funny, he is probably just talking about something he found on the internet! He probably went to Hillary Clinton's school of Exaggeration'
Yeah... see, the same statement can be said to you as well.


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Mark_Cohran
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Apr 01, 2008 22:05 |  #9

Calm down and take a deep breath. I don't think anyone meant to insult or belittle you, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum over the past couple of years. There are many here who will agree with you, others who will disagree and many more that see a middle ground. The vast majority of us do prefer specific citations when you make an assertion of fact as you did above. Hearsay doesn't gain you much credence when trying to engage in rational discussion, though I have to admit a couple of the posts in response to yours were atypically childish and insulting for this forum.


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Tumeg
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Apr 01, 2008 22:14 |  #10

Mark_Cohran wrote in post #5242014external link
Calm down and take a deep breath. I don't think anyone meant to insult or belittle you, but this topic has been discussed ad nauseum over the past couple of years. There are many here who will agree with you, others who will disagree and many more that see a middle ground. The vast majority of us do prefer specific citations when you make an assertion of fact as you did above. Hearsay doesn't gain you much credence when trying to engage in rational discussion, though I have to admit a couple of the posts in response to yours were atypically childish and insulting for this forum.

I didn't get mad/heated, I was just stating an opinion on his comments. I know it has been discussed many times, but I posted this just to show the video that I found, and while at it I thought I would post my opinion and ask for others. I do know some agree, and disagree, that's why I wanted to hear everyones opinions so I could see\hear why they disagree. Yes, me not providing a source to my accusation was not a good thing to do, I have been looking for the story, but I found it a few months ago, so I can't locate it at the present time.


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bkburns
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Apr 01, 2008 22:15 |  #11

Tumeg wrote in post #5241788external link
See, what was the point of this comment? To get your post count up? To make yourself feel big, powerful, and 'special'?

Tumeg - Tune down your sensitivy-o-meter please. -? Then others like myself might respond. While some of the replies may have been a bit snarky, don't feed them.

I would be interested in your citations for the cameras being taken away by police. I have heard this referenced before but have yet to see a credible source.


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Glenn ­ NK
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Apr 02, 2008 00:27 |  #12

Keep in mind is that this is an international forum (owned and operated by Pekka who lives in Finland). The laws and customs regulating photography will vary considerably from country to country and possibliy even from one region to another in a given country.

Thus each responder will see this topic in light or their own personal situation, and because the legalities vary considerably, the opinions and answers will vary considerably, and thus may be somewhat meaningless - although interesting.


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Nanscombe
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Apr 02, 2008 01:39 |  #13

Hi All,

Tumeg wrote in post #5239997external link
... The security guards in the video, are not official officers

Wrong! They, the Uk Community Support Officers that is, have powers given to them by the relevant Chief Constable (of Police) and the Uk Government.

Tumeg wrote in post #5239997external link
... they have no right to ask for your information

Wrong! If they suspect you of certain offences, including anti-social behaviour, they can require your name and address.

Tumeg wrote in post #5239997external link
... or arrest you

Wrong! Sort of. In some cases they can use reasonable force to detain you for up to 30 minutes until the police arrive, or escort you to a Police station.

http://police.homeoffi​ce.gov.uk ...ommunity1.pdf?view=​Binaryexternal link

Amongst their powers they can hand out fixed penalty fines and seize alcohol.

Regards
Nigel


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SlowBlink
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Apr 02, 2008 01:52 |  #14

The Police in California have powers given to them by the relevant Chief Constable (of Police) and the Uk Government.?

Where's Lou Dobbs and why isn't he on this? Perfect example of Not reading the post prior.

It's a good subject Brad and it would be great to have people giving their opinions relative to geography. I'm in the middle but think a lot of the altercations are probably abuse of a uniform.


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gooble
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Apr 02, 2008 04:59 |  #15

SlowBlink wrote in post #5243142external link
The Police in California have powers given to them by the relevant Chief Constable (of Police) and the Uk Government.?

Where's Lou Dobbs and why isn't he on this? Perfect example of Not reading the post prior.

It's a good subject Brad and it would be great to have people giving their opinions relative to geography. I'm in the middle but think a lot of the altercations are probably abuse of a uniform.

What are you talking about? The topic of this thread is about a video in London. I don't think anyone's mentioned police in California.




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