Allowing PJ's to be creative

[timmyquest]

So i shot my first non-sports assignment today for the paper. I emailed them my photos with what i felt were some real keepers but i was worried about one thing.

At some point during the day i lost my notebook with the names of the kids i shot with santa. I remembered one of the names so they still can use that but they wanted me to email them some photos of larger groups so they dont have to use any name.

What bothers me is the editors comments about my more creative photos of the day: "The photos of the subjects back and santa kind of blurred in the backround is nice, more artsy i guess you could say. But we tend to be a bit more of the 'old-school', we like faces".

I can understand that, but it reminded me of a convo i had at a football game with one of the local heralds paper. We were talking about why he hated sporst photography, which lead into why he liked his current job (but his friend just got a better one for the same reason). "I have to give the herald credit, they pretty much run whatever we give them as long as it's relevent. They allow us to be creative."

Photo in question
http://www.questphotos.com/november2...ican-santa.jpg

I guess this is more of a rant, but i'd be interested in hearing what you guys expereince when it comes to this and if smaller papers generally act like this.

PS
Major lesson learned today, when being a professional one should act like a pro. Losing the notepad is just pathetic

[defordphoto]

I have to agree. If we were seeing the face on the kid that'd be cool to have Santa in the BG, but since we're not, the shot is a tosser. Especially as a PJ shot. Personally, I don't see anything that exciting there either way. They want to see the excitement on the kid's faces. See: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...ad.php?t=49250

Nice bokeh, however.

[timmyquest]

Originally Posted by RFMSports

I have to agree. If we were seeing the face on the kid that'd be cool to have Santa in the BG, but since we're not, the shot is a tosser. Especially as a PJ shot. Personally, I don't see anything that exciting there either way. They want to see the excitement on the kid's faces. See: http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...ad.php?t=49250

Nice bokeh, however.

No, i generally agree too. It's really not worthy of the story. But what annoyed me was her comment "We're more of the old school". So, they like me to hold up my camera to get a smile and say "cheese! your in the paper".

I guess i cant complain though, they're paying me to do it

[gmen]

Timmy -

Mainstream, local newspapers will tend to towards using bold and simple images that illustrate events - showing faces and sometimes even the dreaded 'cheesy' grin!

This is due to:

1. The target audience of the paper - i.e. potential sales to a 'mainstream' audience are higher if the pictures show local people clearly and in a good light.

2. The quality of reproduction - your 'arty' shot might not look quite so good in low quality newsprint, to the extent that it may just look like a poor capture.

3. Editorial issues - i.e. the image will support the story very specifically and will need to be captioned appropriately. The shot will sometimes need to be 'staged' to do this. Ironically this 'staging' process isn't always easy and that's where your creativity will come in.

Keep shooting a range of pictures - but make sure you get your pics of 'faces' in the bag before you take the 'experimental' ones. That way you can satisfy your publication first and then yourself!

With regard to the missing notebook - what camera are using? On my MkII, I make a lot of use of that little voice memo facility that tags a sound caption to the files - I think there was the same feature on the original 1D. This is a great backup to the notebook!

Good luck - gmen

[IndyJeff]

If you get a credential lanyard you can hang around your neck, a small spiral notebook can be attached to it and you won't lose it.

[timmyquest]

With regard to the missing notebook - what camera are using? On my MkII, I make a lot of use of that little voice memo facility that tags a sound caption to the files - I think there was the same feature on the original 1D. This is a great backup to the notebook!

This is why i have one of the kids names

[defordphoto]

Originally Posted by timmyquest

No, i generally agree too. It's really not worthy of the story. But what annoyed me was her comment "We're more of the old school". So, they like me to hold up my camera to get a smile and say "cheese! your in the paper".

I guess i cant complain though, they're paying me to do it

Yeah, I know what ya mean. I think a sideshot of the kid with a huge smile on his face and then the background might have been a bit more telling. Some shots work, some don't. I have been there where you think you've got The Shot and the editor picks some tosser you left on the card.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One man's trash is another's....

[timmyquest]

I think a sideshot of the kid with a huge smile on his face and then the background might have been a bit more telling

This is the exact same shot i pictured in my mind after reading this thread, the thread you linked me to, and then kens thread he wrote today (or was it yesterday?)

[defordphoto]

Originally Posted by timmyquest

This is the exact same shot i pictured in my mind after reading this thread, the thread you linked me to, and then kens thread he wrote today (or was it yesterday?)

All depends on when you saw it... It's all related and we have some great threads going here now...

Ever learning. Ever knowing.

I studied your shot for quite some time to see how I would have liked to have shot it. Many, many times, the shot you want is just not possible. But, that's when you can "convince" your subjects to play-along to create a shot. Most people are more than happy to cooperate.

[timmyquest]

Originally Posted by RFMSports

I studied your shot for quite some time to see how I would have liked to have shot it. Many, many times, the shot you want is just not possible. But, that's when you can "convince" your subjects to play-along to create a shot. Most people are more than happy to cooperate.

What i really wanted was Santa to kind of interact with some kids, he never really did during the parade, what i wanted was to get a photo of a bunch of little kids all trying to high-five him like a group of drunken fat guys trying to high-five Terell Owens at an eagles game.

For some reason it just didnt happen, and this little kid with an american flag was standing in front of me as santa came marching down the street...it was the first idea that came to my head, so i shot.

I would have liked to somehow get his face, the flag, and santa, all in one shot...but i'm not real sure how that would have worked, as you said. Not always possible.

Considering all i had was a 50mm and a 70-200 (i really need to hurry up and get the 17-40 in my bag...sohuld be about 2 or 3 weeks) i think i did ok aside from not obtaining everyones names.

I'm also not happy with the basketball shots i sent them this week, so thats two sets of photos in one week that i'm not entirely happy about.

I think it's been a very good week as far as me learning little things. I just dont know if these guys are going to like me learning on the fly like i do. The only good thing i have is that i know i'm better then what i gave them this week, and i know they are short on photographers.

I'm also hoping that my age will give me an advantage, maybe i'm wrong, but i'd think that if they have an 18 year old kid who can take shots that have the office buzzing (My soccer shot aparently did that) then they'll let one bad shot slide every once and a while. If i was a 40 year old guy who has been at it for years though, maybe it would be different.

I dont know, i did my best i think and thats really alli can do.

[gmen]

Originally Posted by RFMSports

I studied your shot for quite some time to see how I would have liked to have shot it. Many, many times, the shot you want is just not possible. But, that's when you can "convince" your subjects to play-along to create a shot. Most people are more than happy to cooperate.

I think this is the key to it. This is the difference between shooting action sports and recording local news as a photojournalist.

With action sports, you are striving to capture the peak moment, the goal, the touchdown, the crunching tackle, the celebration - the shot will still need to be 'newsworthy' but it's down to you to hunt it down from what's going on in front of you.

With local news, you may need to be more 'creative' to 'stage' the odd shot to get the image that captures the story- and, more often that not, you will get the opportunity to do so. As RFM says, people are often happy to cooperate. If you approach 'run-of-the-mill' local news in the same way that you approach shooting the action at a football match, then you may not get the pictures you need.

[timmyquest]

I guess my point gmen is that it really depends on who your working for, or maybe how long you've been working for them.