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Thread started 09 Jun 2008 (Monday) 20:19
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STICKY: re: Powershot Speed Challenge rules

 
prcrstn8
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Jun 09, 2008 20:19 |  #1

Rule #1, right there at the top of the challenge every week -

put your Photo Name in the Subject Line

Sometimes it's enforced, disqualifying otherwise good photos. Other times it's ignored - this week, for example, the winner of the challenge (a great photo, btw) does not have a photo name in the subject line.

This point has been argued before, to put it mildly, to no end. One option is to get rid of the rule - it might imply that P&S owners are too stupid to follow the same rules that are enforced in other challenges but that bothers me less (I've been called worse) than a rule that is selectively and inconsistently enforced.

Opinions please. Keep it civil.


Evan
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Old ­ man ­ Don
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Jun 10, 2008 10:42 |  #2

Keep the rule and enforce it. It is just to simple a step in the posting process to make an issue out of this rule and ignores the actual problem - following a simple preliminary checklist by the judge for qualifying entries for competition.
Should he miss-award based on an oversight of rule enforcement he should simply retract and re-award to a qualified entry.
It is a competition.


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melatonin
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Jun 10, 2008 12:54 |  #3

I may sound like an amateur, but I think not writing the name is a minor thing and can be ignored. Picture size etc ...things that directly affect the photos should be strictly enforced. But then this is subjective and makes the judges life more difficult. I think that rules should be minimized, so that following them is easy... eg. pixel size and file size should be the only thing that should be enforced.




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BBoi
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Jun 10, 2008 18:01 as a reply to melatonin's post |  #4

How would you determine filesize so it is consistent and fair ?


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Jon
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Jun 10, 2008 19:54 |  #5

IMHO (as an individual, not a Major Deity), and as someone who generally avoids entering the contests, a title should be included; sometimes entries are abstracts and a title gives them some anchor. Whether it must be in the post title, I'm not convinced either way, since an embedded image can be entered from the "Quick" post (and the post title can't be edited there), while attachments need you to go "Advanced", where the title is available for editing. I'd like to see it in the post title, but as long as it's there, that's better than a bare picture out of context.

Size: Anyone got access to multiple browsers on multiple platforms? Do Mac/Windows/Linux with Safari/IE/FireFox/SeaM​onkey/Opera all report the same size on right-click? Are you, the judge, (I avoid entering, so I won't win) to download every entry just to see if it's within size limits. I do think there should be a size limit; I'd incline toward the 150 KB Attachment limit as that puts everyone on a more even footing WRT JPEG compression.

As I said up front; I'm not likely to enter unless a contest looks horribly bare and I have a suitable entry; I'm not trying to throw moderator weight around. I just hope I've offered a few thoughts that may help.


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BBoi
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Jun 11, 2008 04:16 as a reply to Jon's post |  #6

All browsers should report exactly the same size. On hard drives it's a different story.


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urcunina
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Jun 12, 2008 09:29 |  #7

I feel that the instructions for the challenge need to be reviewed and updated by moderator.

Some of them are/could be misleading:

"To submit, click "Post Reply" and put your Photo Name in the Subject Line. Don't forget your Camera Model."

In this case, the subject line is really the Title on the 'Reply to Thread form.

The photo name should be required because it makes the job of the judge much easier, and being disqualified for lack of name isn't a life changing incident.


"3. Size -- Photo must be EXACTLY 800 pixels on the longest side and no more than 200K in size with NO BORDERS. Here is some help for resizing your photos in Photoshop - http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...9&pos​tcount=26"

The link is to a very nice article by Rick Baker which includes how to resize, but not how to adjust file size. I use Photoshop Image->Image size and then File->Save for web, adjusting quality until the file size is right.

Now, I'm sure there are several other possibilities for folks using different applications. So, I propose that compiling these possibilities and inserting a link in the instructions is appropriate.

Finally, I would encourage others to comment here. Maybe the challenge instructions could be worded in a way that would encourage more folks to participate.


-Joe Bruce
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urcunina
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Jun 12, 2008 09:43 |  #8

Jon wrote in post #5698849external link
IMHO (as an individual, not a Major Deity), and as someone who generally avoids entering the contests, a title should be included; sometimes entries are abstracts and a title gives them some anchor. Whether it must be in the post title, I'm not convinced either way, since an embedded image can be entered from the "Quick" post (and the post title can't be edited there), while attachments need you to go "Advanced", where the title is available for editing. I'd like to see it in the post title, but as long as it's there, that's better than a bare picture out of context.

Size: Anyone got access to multiple browsers on multiple platforms? Do Mac/Windows/Linux with Safari/IE/FireFox/SeaM​onkey/Opera all report the same size on right-click? Are you, the judge, (I avoid entering, so I won't win) to download every entry just to see if it's within size limits. I do think there should be a size limit; I'd incline toward the 150 KB Attachment limit as that puts everyone on a more even footing WRT JPEG compression.

As I said up front; I'm not likely to enter unless a contest looks horribly bare and I have a suitable entry; I'm not trying to throw moderator weight around. I just hope I've offered a few thoughts that may help.

Jon,

I very much appreciate your involvement with pretty much every facet of this forum. It would be nice if others could help, as a project, to make a challenge form better. This is the only challenge that I enter. I am concerned that the participation is dismal sometimes and I hope that it can be improved by encouraging others to enter. My experience limits me to make any more suggestions.

As far as you entering a challenge, I can imagine that your finger has been poised above the Submit button on more that one occasion!:)


-Joe Bruce
Not a peer here.

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BBoi
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Jun 12, 2008 10:24 as a reply to urcunina's post |  #9

May I suggest some gentle changes for people to mull over... I have 'redded' my amendments.

---------------

1. Camera -- Any Canon Powershot Series Camera (SD, A-series, S1/2, & S-series only...No Pro 1's!!!)

2. Time -- any on-topic photo taken at any time is eligible, although photos that have won other competitions on this board should NOT be entered.

3. Size -- Photo must be EXACTLY 800 pixels on the longest side and no more than 200K in size -( when checked in a browser, not your hard drive )- and with NO BORDERS or watermarks.

Here is some help for resizing your photos in Photoshop -
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...9&pos​tcount=26
Here is an online version of Photoshop -
https://www.photoshop.​com/express/landing.ht​mlexternal link
Another option would be Irfanview - http://www.irfanview.c​om/external link

4 Hosting - Images may be attached here, or hosted offsite, one suggestion would be tinypic.com although there are many others.


5. Post-Processing -- do whatever you like and the host will decide if it works. This includes HDR, & Focus Stacking. However, you should NOT use the RAW hack, to keep it fair for people who cannot run the hack on their camera model.

6. Posting --
* ONE PHOTO per photographer in each challenge.
* Photo Name somewhere in the entry along with the EXIF Data.
* Camera model.
Here is a free tool to read EXIF Information - http://www.takenet.or.​jp ...inisoft/exifread/en​glish/external link

7. Notes -- Name and camera you used and any other information pertaining to the photo...location, photo tips.

8. Commenting -- No commenting during challenge. Thanks and comments maybe made following the Winner Announcement.

---------------

Thoughts ? feel free to add, remove, edit copy etc .. just needs bringing up to date is all in a way we can all happy with.


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teekay
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Jun 12, 2008 11:03 as a reply to BBoi's post |  #10

BBoi, your suggested rules are all reasonable and the idea of explaining how them in more detail has some merit. The problem is that you are introducing even more wording and even with the simple rules we already have, some entrants just don't take the time to read them.

The rules, whatever they are, should as short and simple as possible and then both judges and entrants should be required to stick to them. Judges should not be able to selectively apply or ignore them at their discretion.

So here's my suggested short list:

1. Size EXACTLY 800 pixels on the longest side

2. Do away with the file size rule - this has always been the one that newbies have trouble with.

3. EXIF info may be included but not required. Personally I don't record my settings and don't care about anyone else's in these contests, but if anyone wants to see them they can usually get them from the posted image in various ways - or ask after the challenge is over.

4. No borders, watermarks or copyright notices on the entries.

5. No entries that have previously won first place on weekly challenges in this POTN forum.

6. Entrants must either put a title in the reply line or put "Untitled" there.

7. No comments or explanation of the entry by the entrant (the photo should speak for itself) and no commenting by anyone until the challenge is over.

8. Always keep the same cutoff times and days (Mondays 12:00 GMT) for ending challenges. If the next challenge starts late due to a tardy new judge, then so be it - most entries are submitted in the last few days anyway.




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BBoi
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Jun 12, 2008 12:23 as a reply to teekay's post |  #11

Much better, you could separate the site stuff into a small help style section at the bottom so it doesn't clusterbomb the ruleset. But I worry that people will put pictures up without any compression. I confess I do prefer your more concise version :)


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prcrstn8
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Jun 12, 2008 14:44 |  #12

BBoi wrote in post #5709453external link
I confess I do prefer your more concise version

I do too.


Evan
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DreDaze
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Jun 14, 2008 00:47 |  #13

i think the title rule is unnecessary...it's pretty much the reason i stopped entering the contests...


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teekay
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Jun 14, 2008 17:31 |  #14

DreDaze wrote in post #5719331external link
i think the title rule is unnecessary...it's pretty much the reason i stopped entering the contests...

Having a title certainly helps judges when they are commenting and referring to entries, and sometimes helps helps entrants indicate what they feel about the shot.

If you have a permanent aversion to titling your own pix, then surely putting "Untitled" in the reply line takes care of that? This is accepted practice in most art contests and exhibitions, whether photos, paintings, sculptures or whatever. Or you could just give it just a number or whatever the image file name is on your computer? What's the problem?




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DreDaze
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Jun 14, 2008 18:28 |  #15

teekay wrote in post #5722398external link
Having a title certainly helps judges when they are commenting and referring to entries, and sometimes helps helps entrants indicate what they feel about the shot.

If you have a permanent aversion to titling your own pix, then surely putting "Untitled" in the reply line takes care of that? This is accepted practice in most art contests and exhibitions, whether photos, paintings, sculptures or whatever. Or you could just give it just a number or whatever the image file name is on your computer? What's the problem?

i think many are sticklers for the rules...and untitled wouldn't be allowed...i tried simply...'green entry' in the green contest...and was disqualified...don't think i would've won anyways as most the entries blew mine away....i have no problem going untitled, or an image #...but for many that doesn't constitute a title...


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