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Thread started 12 Jun 2008 (Thursday) 02:40   
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bens109
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Hi all,

I've been reading a lot on this site and getting some great tips. As I'm just starting out doing gig photography I thought I would post some shots up, any C&C would be appreciated - don't hold back! I have done nightclub shooting in the past but I've only lately had a chance to shoot bands through thanks to a music website here in Australia. It's unpaid but I guess I can't complain!

The main problem I'm having is with the lighting. I have fast glass but I'm not sure how to approach the white balance. Should I try and adjust in post for the stage lights or is it acceptable to have red/blue/green skin? The best shots I am getting are when there is a white light on the singer but that doesn't happen very often. The shots I see here and on the web that I like best have spot on WB but I'm not sure if that is due good stage lighting or post processing. Also does having the exposure correct affect the white balance? I find it hard to tell if a blue/red/green face is correctly exposed.

The other problem I'm finding is that a lot of my shots are very soft. I'm not sure if it is to do with noise as Im shoot a 800-1600iso or not. I'm shooting with a 30D plus 30 1.4, 50 1.4 and 10-22 3.5-4.5

Any C&C or tips on how to get sharp, bright shots would be great,

Thanks!

more shot on Flickrexternal link


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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2572656488_c2d9d6aef8.jpg?v=0


2

IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3171/2571833481_13ea19e2e5.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3275/2571833309_7bc1908643.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2572656332_765a630d3d.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3165/2571832621_5330e5f3b4.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3016/2572652278_89895deee7.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3187/2572652168_27d55658aa.jpg?v=0


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IMAGE: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2489651830_f2947c4b9a.jpg?v=0

Post #1, Jun 12, 2008 02:40:46




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johnstoy
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I like the colors of these shots...

In some of these ,the mike is really too close to the face... I always try to post those pics that show more face and less mike... My feeling is that it's all about the face.

My 30D did not take too well to the Sigma 30mm f1.4... My first and only shoot with it was a focusing disaster and I promptly returned it for an upgrade to "L" glass... However, the Canon 50mm f1.4 is usually spot on... I use the center focusing point and focus on the performer's eye...

The tilt in pictures might make for occasionally interesting composition... However, It's easier on the eye if the picture is straightened out to a parallel with the stage or backdrop or mike stand, etc. The tilt overwhelms the picture and in this entire set, less would be more.

Shoot in RAW and post process... Consider shooting "bracketed" 1 full F stop apart in sets of three... Shoot your entire memory card... And sort the best ones out at home after the show...

I can't actually see if their eyes are open, and if they are smiling and showing their teeth, till I view the actual captures on the computer monitor... I prefer shooting a lot of captures at the best moments of the stage action, with the hope of that perfect shot.

Regarding the noise... Use a noise reduction feature, Noise Ninja works like a charm... As for ISO 1600 or ISO 3200... there is always less noise when the lighting is real good.... Even at ISO 3200 on the 30D, the noise levels are not that evident when the lighting is strong... I'm nearly always shooting in ISO 1600. The stage action places the performer all over the stage and under different lights... The lights alternate and even move around... To hope for consistent, sustained lighting is not always realistic...

Off course there is that one show where the artist sits or stands still the entire time, and the same light is streaming down the entire show... That's not what we are talking about... It's obvious, we want to overcome the difficult part of this business, and that is the ever changing lighting.

Post #2, Jun 12, 2008 03:45:02


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bens109
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Thanks for your comments and tips!

I hear what you say about the difficulty being in the lighting, I'm normally on top of exposure in my photography but with the stage lighting I find myself unable to be changing shutter/aperture settings and follow the action at the same time. Guess that is where the practice comes in.

I guess my main question at this point in time is what to do about unnatural skin colours? A lot of the time the stage lights are going off in one colour (normally red or blue) with no frontal lighting and I'm left with a image where everything is just that one colour. Are these throw-aways or is it possible to "fix" them in post production? I have been using lightroom but my attempts at WB correction just seem to make the images worse......

Post #3, Jun 12, 2008 10:05:53 as a reply to johnstoy's post 6 hours earlier.




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bens109
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Oh and I haven't tried the 30mm sigma out at a gig so far though I have used it a lot (much more than the 50 1.4) and love it. I also have the Tamron 17-50 2.8 but it says in the bag and I use the 30mm as a walkabout lens.

I'm on the look out for a 1D mkII so I plan to replace the 30mm with a 85 or 100 to get a little bit closer to the action.......

Post #4, Jun 12, 2008 10:09:51 as a reply to bens109's post 3 minutes earlier.




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johnstoy
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The color corrections I do in Photoshop... When in RAW, there are a variety of temperature adjustments, saturation of color variables and black and white sliders... Still haven't found one steadfast solution to the myriad of problems with the occasional/rare but devastating *color extreme* issues.

Post #5, Jun 12, 2008 11:02:36


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bens109
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I was reading somewhere about "blowing out" one of the RGB channels. I think this has been happening to me a bit with the stage lighting leaving large patches of solid colour where there should be detail. Is this the same as over exposing the whole shot or is it to do with just one channel? Would you avoid it by changing your exposure settings or your white balance?

So far I have been taking jpegs as I managed to lose my 4gb CF card leaving me with only 1gb of space. As soon as I get another I will switch to RAW. Will RAW give me more leeway with the RGB channels?

Post #6, Jun 25, 2008 00:45:42 as a reply to johnstoy's post 12 days earlier.




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letsmakeart
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it's a music show, coloured light is part of the territory. Whilst I often see if I can process so that at least the skin looks a little more natural, often the coloured light is fine as is and can definitely add to many photos.

Post #7, Jun 25, 2008 04:12:17


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bacchanal
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bens109 wrote in post #5787326external link
I was reading somewhere about "blowing out" one of the RGB channels. I think this has been happening to me a bit with the stage lighting leaving large patches of solid colour where there should be detail. Is this the same as over exposing the whole shot or is it to do with just one channel? Would you avoid it by changing your exposure settings or your white balance?

So far I have been taking jpegs as I managed to lose my 4gb CF card leaving me with only 1gb of space. As soon as I get another I will switch to RAW. Will RAW give me more leeway with the RGB channels?

What I do is use the RGB histogram and just chimp for blown channels (most often red). Setting in camera WB won't help avoid blown channels, but it can help you find the right exposure to maxmize your exposure while minimizing blown channels (if that makes sense). I almost always set my camera to K=2800, because I generally assume stage lighting will tend to be mostly red or at least warm.
Obviously, with typical concert lighting, you'll have some blown spots. The key is just to make sure that you don't have a big spike on the very right edge of your RGB histogram for any of the channels.
Of course, shooting RAW gives you much more leverage in correcting exposure problems in software...personally, I would be lost without RAW.

Post #8, Jun 25, 2008 15:23:39


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René ­ Damkot
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Colored lighting is fine; solid patches of color *not* IMO.
Red and magenta tend to give problems there.

I suggest shooting Raw, although that sometimes leaves something to be desired, depending on Raw converter used: LR does dreadfull things to blue lighting if uncorrected, DPP has a (smaller) problem with yellow spotlights on skin sometimes. RIT is more like the "in camera" processing (DPP supposedly got closer to RIT).
Raw does give a lot more leeway.

I have been doing conversions through DPP (main image), RIT (yellow color on skin) and ACR (recover blown areas) sometimes, blending exposures in PS, to get an image come out like I wanted :)

There is a (Raw) blending tutorial in the FAQ ;)

For shots you've already done in jpg, you can try this: Clickexternal link. (I think it's linked from the FAQ as well)

Post #9, Jun 25, 2008 15:57:38


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DwightMcCann
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Rene, What's RIT? I still haven't calibrated my LR, sigh. I've let it wait so long I can't even remember what to do. :-) I think the biggest problem with Ben's images is softness ... the colors are always odd in concerts. So, Ben, do you sharpen after resizing?

Post #10, Jun 26, 2008 14:56:50


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René ­ Damkot
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RIT = Raw Image Task. (In Zoombrowser / Eos Viewer Utility)

Different Raw converters give different colors. DpReview did a comparison on the 5D hereexternal link. RIT is closest to the camera's jpg. ACR is off quite a bit in the blues (we knew that).
DPP got closer to RIT lately it seems, as can be seen in the 40D review hereexternal link.
ACR is still off by a mile. ;)

Post #11, Jun 26, 2008 15:41:31


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

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DwightMcCann
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So, if ACR is off by a mile, so is LightRoom ... which is my experience. I know I need to apply the presets and experiment. Can LR come close with calibration? I ask because an image of mine of Carole King you and I discussed a while back I never could make nearly as good as the embedded jpeg preview, sigh.

Post #12, Jun 29, 2008 19:16:03


Dwight McCann
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René ­ Damkot
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I'm still experimenting with LR.
I had a calibration setting I was fairly ok with, but that turned the orange t-shirts in this shot to about the same color as what the singer is wearing:

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
http://www.moonglade.n​et ...d_20080613_KiTra_03​88.jpgexternal link
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO


So, I had to make a few other adjustments in the HSL tab.

DPP rendered the image just fine "out of the box" :p

You can get rather close in LR, but you might have to tweak for instance the HSL sliders for certain images. The "targeted adjustment tool" (bottom ofthis pageexternal link) makes that quite easy.
This entire gallery was made using LR 2.0 Beta: Clickexternal link

Post #13, Jun 30, 2008 09:22:54


"I think the idea of art kills creativity" - Douglas Adams
Why Color Management.
Color Problems? Click here.
MySpaceexternal link
Get Colormanagedexternal link
Twitterexternal link
PERSONAL MESSAGING REGARDING SELLING OR BUYING ITEMS WITH MEMBERS WHO HAVE NO POSTS IN FORUMS AND/OR WHO YOU DO NOT KNOW FROM FORUMS IS HEREBY DECLARED STRICTLY STUPID AND YOU WILL GET BURNED.

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DwightMcCann
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Thanks, Rene. I have set aside some time this coming weekend to work on this issue so you may hear from me. :-) BTW, I may be in Holland next year to visit Frank Doorhof and travel around for a week or so ... now that I have my Danish and Dutch friends sorted! I will make sure you have all the details as they are worked out so you can take me shooting and show me everything I am doing wrong, sigh. :-)

Post #14, Jun 30, 2008 09:28:10


Dwight McCann
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How I Got Into This Businesshttp://photography-on-the.net ...p?p=13157388#post13​157388

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