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FORUMS Photo Sharing & Visual Enjoyment Sports
Thread started 14 Jan 2005 (Friday) 21:01
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High School Wrestling

 
Zamora3
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 14, 2005 21:01 |  #1

These pics were taken with a Digital Rebel and a Canon Ef 75-300 IS aswell as a Mecatblitz 54 AF-1 C Flash. On the viewfinder it said I was shooting at 1/4000 but the maximum flash sync on the Dreb is only 200. So I dont know if it shot at 1/4000 or 1/200. When Ive shot at 1/200 the pictures come out pretty blurry but with this new flash the pictures are pretty sharp.

Shot at
Aperture Value: 5
Shutter Speed: ??
ISO: 800

1.

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

2.
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

3.
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

4.
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE

My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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GAJulie
Senior Member
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546 posts
Joined Mar 2004
Jan 14, 2005 21:23 |  #2

What the heck is that on the boy's nose on the 2nd photo?
Looks like a fake bloody nose. Don't know if it is my monitor or the photos, but in places I see lots of dots, like on the maroon headgear on #2, the yellow headgear on number #3 and the face/lips area of the guy on top on 3 and 4.
Overall I like #1 more, the expression on their faces is so...determined. 3 and 4 not as much because you cannot see the 2nd guy's face. Also in this series I would like to see one that's not just of their faces, a little bit wider of angle of view, include more of their bodies.
Just my opinion
Julie



AJS

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maderito
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1,336 posts
Joined Oct 2003
Southern New England
Jan 14, 2005 23:30 as a reply to GAJulie's post |  #3

A couple of thoughts on these pics - which are pretty good...

I agree with Jemmind - they are mostly too tight for my taste. As in other sports shoots, a few tight shots showing facial tension and expression are good. But your better shots tend to show full body lengths, body extension.

The flash is leaving your backgrounds too dark IMO. Try exposure settings that allow available light to expose the background (higher ISO, wider aperture, slower shutter speeds) as the flash illuminates the wrestlers. Try some available light (no flash) with your fast lens ( 50/1.8 ).

Shooting wrestling must be tough. You can probably write the rules as you go along. Experiment, review, share, and then experiment some more. And don't forget the coach, ref, and team members. They're usually pretty involved in the match also.


Woody Lee
http://pbase.com/mader​itoexternal link
http://maderito.fotki.​comexternal link

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Zamora3
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 15, 2005 07:22 |  #4

I have no Idea what happend there on # 2. That was real blood but for saome reason it came out really pixelated. The onlt thing with the flash it if I set the flash to low the pictures are underexposed and if I shoot them with a higher ISO level and larger aperture the pictures are overexposed.

What gets me mad is the camera in low lit situations, it doesnt always select the widest aprture value in Tv mode. When I try to select the Aperture Value in M mode the lowest it'll let me go it 5. When I set it in Av mode the shutter speed is too slow. Whn I shoot with my 50 F/1.8 it always selects 1.8 in low lit situations.

Oh, and those dots you see are the way their headguards are made.


My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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maderito
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1,336 posts
Joined Oct 2003
Southern New England
Jan 15, 2005 08:18 as a reply to Zamora3's post |  #5

Zamora3 wrote:
What gets me mad is the camera in low lit situations, it doesnt always select the widest aprture value in Tv mode. When I try to select the Aperture Value in M mode the lowest it'll let me go it 5. When I set it in Av mode the shutter speed is too slow. Whn I shoot with my 50 F/1.8 it always selects 1.8 in low lit situations.

Oh, and those dots you see are the way their headguards are made.

I think your Metz flash uses the Canon E-TTL system. Check the forum stickies on flash photography. I don't think you're understanding fully how it works.

You should be able to work in AV mode to get wide apertures and better background exposure while allowing the flash to properly expose and stop action of the wrestlers. You still have to worry about ghosting (when the main subject is captured by roughly equal amounts of ambient and flash light), but with some experimenting, you might get it right.

More generally, flash is not ideal for indoor gymnasium sports IMO unless you are using pre-mounted, multiple strobes to illuminate the field of play. All depends on whether you are doing this casually and for fun - or if you plan to do some serious shooting and submit photos for others to use or publish.


Woody Lee
http://pbase.com/mader​itoexternal link
http://maderito.fotki.​comexternal link

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Zamora3
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 15, 2005 08:47 |  #6

Well I got a big game tonight. This will be the first basketball game I have to cover by myself. I really want to do well so I can impress my editor and publisher.

My editor, when he goes out he uses just a mounted flash on his N****, and the pictures come out just fine.


My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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gramps
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1,058 posts
Joined Oct 2004
Mt. WhereinthehellamI? Southen Utah
Jan 15, 2005 09:02 |  #7

When you shoot the basketball game tonight try your 50.. 1.8 with no flash, thats is if you are on the baseline.


Some pics here - http://pbase.com/sjhexternal link
20 D; 85 1.8; 24-70 L; 70-200 f4L (sold); 100-400 L; 420 Light bulb
1550 Pelican "soft case" & too much junk!!!

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Zamora3
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 15, 2005 09:11 |  #8

Yes, they let me sit wherever I want, so distance is not really a problem.

I like the 50 f/1.8, except for one thing.

When I would focus on a player (at that time I had it set at all seven Af points), when I would view the pictures on the LCD, I could tell the camera focused on the background, not the foreground. The last couple of basketball games Ive shot with the 75-300 IS and have not had that happen to me once (this time I had it on the center AF point only)

What if I take a really good picture and say the player w/the ball is off to the right but still in the frame, will that plyer be blurred out since the AF point is in the center? Or does the center AF point focus on everything the same distance as the closest object on the center AF point?


My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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blinking8s
Goldmember
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1,618 posts
Joined Jun 2004
w.kentucky
Jan 15, 2005 09:19 |  #9

use the center point focusing...keep telling the 300d to focus to track your subject better since you dont have 100% ai servo...just keep tapping it till you see the photo you want, fire off a 3 round burst...go back to focusing. You wont need any of your other lenses other than the 50mm...get about 6-10ft away from the rim on the baseline...great sport for the 50


blinking8s.comexternal link | pixelpost photoblog applicationexternal link

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maderito
Goldmember
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1,336 posts
Joined Oct 2003
Southern New England
Jan 15, 2005 09:21 as a reply to Zamora3's post |  #10

Use the center AF point only (if that's selectable on the DRebel). You're getting better results with your telephoto lens because the field of view is smaller (less background) and the aperture is greater (giving you better depth of field).

You're working uphill for sports photos with the DRebel which really isn't designed with action in mind - even though it has a "sports mode." Your solution - flash - may be a reasonable compromise. But still give that 50/1.8 at try with available light.


Woody Lee
http://pbase.com/mader​itoexternal link
http://maderito.fotki.​comexternal link

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Zamora3
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 15, 2005 09:42 |  #11

I lready have. If only I coulf figure out how to set up the metz flash for fill flash then my setup might work. I lost some detail in the pictures and whenevr I brightened them up in PS the noise was really brought out, the over to neat image and it looked like they were painted. Here is a couple of examples of shots with :

NO Flash
50mm F/1.8 @

Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/200
Av( Aperture Value )
1.8
ISO:
800

#1

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


#2
IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


What could it do to gain some of the details (with out using software) I lost in the pictures above?

My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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maderito
Goldmember
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1,336 posts
Joined Oct 2003
Southern New England
Jan 15, 2005 10:05 as a reply to Zamora3's post |  #12

These shots are underexposed by 1 stop or more. Get the exposure right first. Underexposing high ISO pics and then adjusting brightness in post processing just increases noise with no gain in image detail.

Gym lighting is usually predictable and reasonably uniform. Figure out your best exposure settings (look at your histogram) - e.g. f/2, 1/320 sec, ISO 1600. Then use these settings in manual mode, adjusting any of the exposure variables to meet different conditions on the court (sidelines, corners, etc.).

Flash is a different story. From where you're starting - I suggest you just automate the flash exposure (via E-TTL) and use flash exposure compensation (FEC) as required. I know ... not a standard option with the DRebel ... search the forum for possible solutions (hacks).

BTW - I think you are posting your images as GIFs; better to save and post as JPEGs (smaller files, better color rendition, etc. - if done properly).


Woody Lee
http://pbase.com/mader​itoexternal link
http://maderito.fotki.​comexternal link

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Zamora3
THREAD ­ STARTER
Member
129 posts
Joined Dec 2004
Albuquerque, New Mexico (well close by)
Jan 15, 2005 11:14 |  #13

could u post an image of what a "good" histogram looks like. I always get confused on what to look for in the histograms.


My Gear List:
Canon 20D w/BG-E2
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon 580 EX Speedlite
Sigma 70-200 f2.8
Sigma 1.4x TC
Canon 50 f/1.8 II
Canon 75-300 IS f/4-5.6
Canon 18-55 f/3.5-5.6

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maderito
Goldmember
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1,336 posts
Joined Oct 2003
Southern New England
Jan 15, 2005 14:22 as a reply to Zamora3's post |  #14

See:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com ...standing-histograms.shtmlexternal link

There are other threads on this forum.


Woody Lee
http://pbase.com/mader​itoexternal link
http://maderito.fotki.​comexternal link

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mdude85
Senior Member
391 posts
Joined Jul 2004
Jan 15, 2005 18:25 |  #15

zamora -- why do you save your photos as gifs? GIF is a compression algorithm usually reserved for large areas of strong colors (for instance clip art). JPEG is a better file type for photos. That's why there are dots all over your photos.




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