Video Shmideo

[MDJAK]

I've got three video camera. No, I ain't braggin. One's an oldie but still goodie, a Canon with eye control focusing. Haven't used it in a dog's age except to play back old videos.

A Sony, same use.

And a somewhat newer Sony, the PDX-10, which has XLR connectors for external mics, etc.

If I want to shoot video, I'll buy a video camera. Yeah, it's nice to have it in a pinch so if you're lucky enough to have some news worthy event happen right in front of you, video can sometimes (sometimes) tell a more complete story. But if it's your kid's recital you want to film, etc., get the real deal, not a still camera with video tacked on.

That's my .2 cents. Your mileage may vary.

me

[pastanley]

Agree 100%. Get a point and shoot camera if you want video/pictures.

[manutd101]

Big difference in DOF even between the 7x XH-A1 and the 1x 5D Mk II in terms of sensor size. Add in interchangeable lenses and there's material there to get excited about.

[neumanns]

Alright I'll Play...How about me?

I'm a still's kinda guy. My only intrest in video's are of my kids. I am happy capturing there lives in still's but my wife wants video's.

If I bought her a video camera it would result in a net gain of Zero...It would stay in the closet and every time she wished she had it a lot of good it would do there.

I carry my camera nearly everywhere, If we had a video camera i would still take "My" camera.

BUT...Along comes the 5D2, Now if I want to grab some video to Please the wife I can. While carrying "My" camera.

The 5D2 is a large step from 40D no doubt. But I have the computer and I have the video software (CS4 web premium on order) I would have to learn the proccesing but for home use it shouldn't be that toufgh.

And, While I had not intended to make this step up on this release Full frame is lickley where I'm headed somwhere in the forseable future. As nice as they are I do not believe the 1 series are in my forseable future.

So...I get my full frame, wife get's her video, and we do not end up with a camera bag setting in the closet unused.

Sure the cost is a bit more but there are a lot of benifits to upgrading...and one worth mention is. I would rather pay more for somthing that would get used than a few hundered less for somthing that was gonna set in the closet.

So Under this lighting is the benifit of video on the 5D2 enoufgh to push me over the edge ? Video alone, no! Video + other benifit's, Quite possably! That is the decision I'm trying to make.

If I do Can I borrow that bag of glass setting in your closet till the 1D IV ship's?

[davidfig]

A noink friend of mine put it the best. What follows is why you want a 5D MII.

He commented on the new 5D by saying "If the Nikon D701 comes with HD video it will be easier to justify for a Christmas purchase". Get it. It allows him to use that $1000 on his DSLR rather than a video camera his wife wants. Plus he is salivating over using his Nikkor's for video.

[alankey]

Originally Posted by pastanley

Agree 100%. Get a point and shoot camera if you want video/pictures.

Why? thats like saying saying get a crap 20 year old car without a cd player instead of a Ferrari with one cause your not going to use the cd player. Point is the Ferrari still does what it was made for damn well, plus it has a cd player.

And as far as i can tell, the video quality the 5d produces is amazing. better than that of some video cameras in a similar price range.

The 5d produces images as good as a 1dsmkiii, and produces amazing video.

So tell me, why should i get a point and shoot over a 5dmkii if i want to use it for video and pictures?

why does it seem as if everyone is hating the 5dmkii cause it does video?

[Duder]

Originally Posted by MDJAK

If I want to shoot video, I'll buy a video camera.

you say that. but the 5DmkII takes better quality video than the majority of dedicated video cameras out there, and you have a massive choice of lens to use. plus, it's basically a free add-on to a new 5D, which you can still take photos with if you wish.

[osv]

the 5dmkII does not have a real zoom lens(yet), so it's not much of an option for the p&s crowd... still camera zooms don't usually work the same way as a video zoom, they typically don't hold focus while zooming.

even if it did hold focus, a slow crawl shot with a motorized zoom is much easier than doing it with a still camera zoom.

5dmkII video quality... huge 39Mbps bitrate, but it doesn't use b-frames or cabac, which means that it's not as compressed as, say, 24Mbps AVCHD... less compression means less artifacting, and it'll play back on a computer easier, but it doesn't guarantee better video quality over a more compressed bitstream.

5dmkII mov container... google "quicktime gamma shift", there is a thread on dvinfo.net about this with 5dmkII video.

i wish that i had a 5dmkII to play with, but right now i'd rather wait for the next generation of this unit.

[MDJAK]

Geez, seems as if started a real brouhaha. Didn't mean to. Nor am I knocking the new 5D in any way, shape or form. It is by all accounts an awesome picture taking machine. The original 5D was a stunning producer of high quality pictures also.

Nope, that's not my point at all. All I'm stating is if I want serious video and all that goes with it, including quality soundtrack, focusing while zooming as stated above, etc., I will choose the right tool for that job, a video camera. I'm not knocking the 5D because it has video. Not at all. Didn't mean for it to sound that way either.

I'm sorely tempted to pick one up as I've got a lot of unused glass sitting around waiting for the reincarnation of the 1DMKIII in either "N" form or MKIV iteration.

me

[gooble]

Originally Posted by osv

the 5dmkII does not have a real zoom lens(yet), so it's not much of an option for the p&s crowd... still camera zooms don't usually work the same way as a video zoom, they typically don't hold focus while zooming.

even if it did hold focus, a slow crawl shot with a motorized zoom is much easier than doing it with a still camera zoom.

5dmkII video quality... huge 39Mbps bitrate, but it doesn't use b-frames or cabac, which means that it's not as compressed as, say, 24Mbps AVCHD... less compression means less artifacting, and it'll play back on a computer easier, but it doesn't guarantee better video quality over a more compressed bitstream.

5dmkII mov container... google "quicktime gamma shift", there is a thread on dvinfo.net about this with 5dmkII video.

i wish that i had a 5dmkII to play with, but right now i'd rather wait for the next generation of this unit.

What is a real zoom lens?

Whether or not a zoom lens stays in focus while changing focal length depends on whether it is parfocal. Here is a list of parfocal Canon lenses: http://www.rogercavanagh.com/helpinfo/30_parfocal.stm

[osv]

Originally Posted by gooble

What is a real zoom lens?

holding focus is the number one criteria, but how many of those lenses have a motorized zoom?

in the prosumer world, this would be one definition of a real zoom lens:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=17035

[gooble]

Originally Posted by osv

holding focus is the number one criteria, but how many of those lenses have a motorized zoom?

in the prosumer world, this would be one definition of a real zoom lens:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=17035

I'll ask again, what is a real zoom lens? You did not answer the question. All the "zoom" means is that the focal length changes and that is true for any motorized or non-motorized zoom lens.

For the record there is not one motorized zoom lens for any DSLR on the market. There may have been some wierd ones in the past, at least by Canon, but today?

That xl-h1s is over $9,000 and you're comparing it to a $2,700 dslr?

[NickJushchyshyn]

The usefulness of video in a DSLR like the 5D varies greatly depending on the user.
For most consumers ... it will be "handy" to occationally shoot a high-quality HD quicktime video clip without having to carry multiple cameras. It's not "ideal" for video, but many passionate users (which you generally are if you are a consumer investing in a $2500+ DSLR in the first place) will likely be quick to adopt new shooting habits that will take advantage of the camera's (and lens's) strengths.

A LOT of the excitement over these features is coming from people that have been involved in (or aspire to) feature film, indie film and similar productions (amateur or professional). The reason for this is that there is a dramatic optical difference between a shot done on 35mm film digitally scanned at 2K vs the "look" of inexpensive (<$10,000) video cameras that natively shoot digital.

Keep in mind that feature film cameras are manual focus, manual zoom to begin with ... and that one of the more popular "cheats" for getting 35mm film look is to add moving ground-glass in front of a video camera using a SLR lens (again, manual focused and zoom) to focus a 35mm image onto the glass ... which is then recorded by the video camera.

Having a sub-$3000 camera that shoots digitally using fast (dramatic bokka), interchangeable glass is revolutionary for this market. The interesting thing is that the "video" from a 5D with a f2.8 or faster lens will look DRAMATICALLY better (for a film-ic production) than just about anything the xl-h1 can shoot natively. The only thing to really do this at a "reasonable price" before has been the RED, which (at least at the moment) doesn't have the mass-production prospects of a Canon or Nikon product.

Understandably, there are likely thousands of photographers that would have absolutely no interest whatsoever in a DSLR's ability to shoot video. Video schmideo. Thankfully, the improvements in cameras like the 5D mII make it a very attractive product even without using it to shoot motion.

Still, for thousands of other photographers and film makers, being able to shoot "video" with fast, interchangeable glass (even if it's "just" still camera glass) at very low (<$3000) price points is EXTREMELY useful ... (especailly when a lot of us already have cache of glass ready to go).

[MDJAK]

Nick, that is an excellent, well thought out and learned reply. Welcome to the forum.

mark

[osv]

Originally Posted by gooble

I'll ask again, what is a real zoom lens? You did not answer the question.

yes, i did, and i even gave you a perfect example of it from canon... what part of those specs did you not understand?

quote us the specific features that didn't make sense to you, and i'll do my best to talk you through it.

the 5d presents a bit of a dilemma for canon, because if they actually do produce a real zoom lens for it, will people buy the 5d, or the successor to the xl-h1s? at some point, there will be a blurring of the product lines.

one of the huge weaknesses with the 5d is the cmos sensor, with it's rolling shutter issues:
http://dvxuser.com/jason/CMOS-CCD/

it will be interesting to see if canon keeps the ccd block with the upcoming redesign of the xl-h1s.