Shooting a family wedding - Along side hired pro.

[Michael_Lambert]

Hey guys,

So a couple of months ago my wifes sister asked me to photograph there wedding. From the readings on these forums and such and with our newborn there was just no way i could do it, that and i really dislike working for family so i suggested to her to hire a professional who does it for a living.

She asked me at that point if i could "Help out" when needed so i asked her what she meant by that and she said just at times when the hired pro was not around, or if he was shooting one thing if i could do other things. Mostly she is looking for me to just walk around and do the candid stuff, most of her family would be alittle more open and out going towards me so she knows i might pull off some better shots. That and she has asked that i come by first thing in the morning.

Her hired pro is working 14 hours ( 10 am to 12 midnight ) there ceremony is at 2pm. So she has asked that i drop by first thing in the morning and catch some of the family anitcs that are bound to happen untill the photographer shows up and then shot some more when he leaves to go to the grooms.

Well this is where the issue comes, The photographer was over the other day to go through what formal shots they want and to get the schedual of events so he does not miss anything, He seen on the table some poster size prints that i shoot of them for there engagement which i did last week only because they did not book the studio when they booked the wedding and then could not fit them in when they relised the engagments where not included.

So, the photographer complimented them on the shots and asked who did them. She said i had and he said he was glad she could find someone on short notice, She told him that i was her brother inlaw and that i would actually be helping out at the wedding as well. Well aparently he did not look too happy about it, He snardly remarked that in the contract it does state they can not have any other hired pros, that if addional people are required they would supply them at addional cost.

She told him i was not hired that i was just family and i would stay completely out of his way ( Which i completed planned on doing ) and that i was primarly going to be only doing shots when he is not there to ensure everything is covered, and just walking around family candid stuff.

He came accross to her kind of abrubt and told her that it was her responsibility to ensure all family and guest where not to be around while they are doing the formal shots that he was not being paid to setup formal shots for family and friends to shoot it.

He then asked her what kind of gear i would be using, and she really does nto know much but told him that she does not know the model but knows its canon and that i paid almost 10grand for it.. I am guess that he is worried about me stealing his staged shots and them getting the prints from me stealing the money out of his hands, Which keep in mind i would not do..

She has asked me to talk to the photographer the day off and try and ease the tension

My question is, Where does he get the right to go off like this. Every wedding i have been to the bride and groom are swarmed with point and shoots, and while its very annoying it happens how can you sit there on there day and say they have to ensure no one snaps a shot of his work, and while i am sure he may be annoyed that i would be there.. it was made clear to him why i was there and what i would be doing and again have no intentions of getting in his way.

Aside from leaving my camera at home which some might suggest, what do you all think is the best way to approach this?

[OdiN1701]

Just ask him what he expects. If he doesn't want you shooting during formals, then don't. I don't blame him - having more than one person with a camera can lead to people looking at the wrong one - especially if both are more pro level cameras. He may not even want the P&S people there when he is working.

I think if you explain what you're doing, and don't shoot things he's setting up that you'll be fine. I don't think he'd have an issue with you getting maybe some more private family type shots or doing some candids around the reception.

[Michael_Lambert]

Oh i have no intentions of being near them during there formals. They are doing the formals outside the hall and i have been asked to go in and shoot inside the hall while they are outside to get some setup shots and stuff. He was told that but he got totally bent out of shape.

I have a voice message from her i just have not had time to call her back yet being that i work on the phone all day Hopefully all is fine.

[OdiN1701]

Just talk the the guy...he's probably put up with the "Uncle Bob" types and most probably are more annoying than working with another actual pro. They don't understand the dynamics of the event, etc. so usually are in the way or think differently than you will.

I figure the best thing is to just have a nice chat with the guy - sit down for a cup of coffee when you both have time or something. All he has now is perceptions about what will happen and in the mind of a wedding photog - it's probably a worst case scenario type thing. We like to think that way :P But I'm sure after a meet you'd work things out nicely.

[Michael_Lambert]

Well,

I called her back and she got a phone call from him today about another issue he was unaware of the traveling so he wanted to tack on $100 for traveling expenses and she said that was fine just to prevent any more tension...

She also told him that she asked me to speak with him to ensure i do not intrude on any of his shots or get in his way in anyway possible.

His reply was "Anyone at your wedding with a camera is a potenial problem. The bigger the camera the bigger the problem tends to be. While i understand your friend might be a professional he is not a Professional Wedding Photographer or else i would have never been called."

So now i am almost tempted to just show up with a Freaking G9 and still get the shots she wants!

Anyways, i think at this point i am best to introduce myself saturday morning and do what i said i would stay out of his sight.

[stathunter]

Call the photog and get clearance from him-- introduce yourself and see if you can make friends.
I typically tell clients that they can have anyone they like photograph....the disclaimer I make is if someone gets in my way I am not going to fight I will just step back---- and I let them know that may effect the quality or number of my photos.
Usually when I say this the client quickly parts the sea for me and lets everyone know not to get in my way.

EDIT: some old school wedding photographers are their own worst enemy-- sounds like he is one.

[Michael_Lambert]

Yea i tried calling the photog, got a voice mail system saying that he unavailible and to leave a voice message which he will be picking up regularly.

I am going to fire him off a email in a second.

** Edited**

This is the email i sent. Hopefully it will smooth things over and saturdays event will go off with out a hitch.

Good afternoon XXXXX.


I wanted to take a second to introduce myself, my name is Michael Lambert and I am a professional sports/ events photographer. You have been in communications with my sister in law who has hired you for her wedding this weekend and I must say that after reviewing our portfolio on your website I know she will be very pleased with the out come.

There seems to be some possible miss communication and I wanted to clear that up with you before this weekend hits and I know you will be very busy and your mind will be on shooting her and her event.

I just wanted to let you know that I am not a professional wedding photographer which is why you are doing what you do. However I do know professional photography Etiquette and I completely acknowledge that you are the hired pro for this event and my intentions are to be completely invisible to you. I have been asked to photograph candid stuff and some family members while you are busy with the bride and groom during this special event.

I would ask that if at any time you feel I am impeding on your space or am in your way for any reason to please let me know and I will ensure not to let it happen again.

Warmest Regards,

Michael Lambert.

[CheetaPita]

Seems to me that youre handling this very well. the other photographer is probably overreacting - but i can sorta see how he could be upset at the idea....I shoot weddings almost every weekend. I work with a local guy here...well i work FOR him. which is why i hardly ever post my wedding stuff on POTN. But i can tell you.....it is iNCREDIBLY annoying when there is another photographer there that is trying to get behind you and get the same shots. I know you have no intention of doing that, but this photographer might have had a bad experience with someone else doing it and now he is just worried.

We give a CD and a copyright release to brides, so its never a worry for me about who they will be buying a print from...but i'll tell you...especially on the posed/formal shots...its very very very very very annoying to have someone else - who isnt the hired pro- stand behind you and get the same shot. The main reason why - the people in the photo never know who to look at. it becomes problematic especially when the group of people is larger or there are kids. See...if a family member is taking a photo behind me....and there is a lil flower girl in the shot....9 times out of 10 she will look at who she knows - which often times is a family member who is into photography. Even adults do that! Its not that i dont want anyone to get the shot...i just dont want them to ruin MY shot, kwim?

[Michael_Lambert]

yea,

Well i got the read recipt so i know the email was read however i have not gotten a reply so i am not too worried about it. If he is honesty going to get bent out of shape over this, then he might be in the wrong profession.

While i agree it sucks when people are lined up behind you shooting your shots it does happen and we hope that most will respect it but some don't and its just human nature.

While i can see him worried when i showed up with a 1D Mark3 and a couple of expensives lens /flashes he has to understand that now adays the average joe is buying up these pro series bodies and he is going to start seeing them around more often. He just has to respect the fact that i have tried to contact him, I have made my intentions clear and honesty i have my wife and 2 month old child there that night.. first time my daughter is going to something like this... i can assure you my camera is going to be pointed on them most of the time...

He has been hired to do a job, He has been paid for the job and the packages have been picked out and paid for, Regardless if there are 100 of me's there that night he is still walking away with what he was hired for and he is getting paid well for it.

I have looked at the package they bought and what it included and honesty i think he is about 30% priced too high, atleast compared to other studios locally and what alot of the guys on these boards charge, and then on top of that charge her another $100 for traveling when the contract was agreed upon and the address and traveling distances where listed.. saying that oh i did not relise it was so far.. I mean come on the contract says you are starting in this town, you are driving this distance to this town, driving back this distance back to this town and then finally ending up in this town at this distance. Being paid a "Expenses Fee" which listed in that explaination is "Gas, Food and admissions fees"

But hey, we are bigger people i guess she did not complain so i wont start nothing either, and i will stay out of his way and if is that uptight come the day off well she will have a back up on site if things fall through.

[shannyD]

[quote=CheetaPita;6591306]....it is iNCREDIBLY annoying when there is another photographer there that is trying to get behind you and get the same shots. quote]


that part is annoying because i have had the chance tow ork for a couple people. and whats worse is when you get someone who just picked up a rebel kit and stand infront of you while you are lining up your shot, and they blow it for you. so you miss out on it all togethr.

michael.

i think you are doing it the right way with contacting hom, and letting hom know your intentions, and that you are well aware of his situation, and or feelings regarding this weekend.

i hope that this runs nice and smooth for you, and veryone involved.

good luck,

shannon

[Michael_Lambert]

Yea the Annoying Photographer is not just weddings But you know what as a professional photographer doing something like a wedding where you know you have 250 guest 200 of them have cameras you are going to get people in the way and rouge flashes going off screwing up your shot. Which is why we shoot the shot more than once and we try and work with the people.

I married into a large portugese family, and we do 5-6 weddings per year and i must say i have yet to run across a bad photographer. We are talking about large weddings 3-5hundred people and lots of cameras. While yes we get the aunts and uncles and kids trying to capture the staged shots, just about every wedding i have gone to the photographer sets up the shot asks everyine nicly to sit back and enjoy for a min and he will give them a turn once he does his thing.

As a wedding photographer i think you need to be able to work with the people! I dont think you should ever have to put any additional stress on the bride!

Two of the weddings the photographer went right to the best man and maid of honor and got them to do crowd control during the formals and that worked out perfectly.. just takes a moment, be nice and ask for the help and you will get it..

[Michael_Lambert]

Wow,

I must admit that i might want to pack all my gear just incase. I have a funny feeling i am dealing with the mentality of a child!

This is the reply i got.

----------------------------------------------

Mr. Lambert,

As you are aware we are not just professional photographers we are a professional company. We are here to service our clients in any and all means possible. This is my life and my bread and butter!

One of our issues with today’s society is that everyone is out for themselves and anyone will do anything to save a buck, this includes paying less for work that is inferior to our own. While I understand you are a professional and you claim you will act like one during the event; it is my experience that a professional like yourself will toss professionalism out the window in the heat of the moment.

Please understand that this is not a baseball game where three strikes and you’re out. I have a very clear contract with XXXX and it will be up held, you are a professional photographer and you will be considered “a hired professional” if I catch you photographing anything formally setup. Please understand that in this industry we have a zero tolerance for this sort of thing and I will not invest my time and efforts for someone else to benefit from my work.

Let me make this very clear to you, XXXX will be in breach of contract if I catch you photographing anything that I have staged or formally setup and I will with out hesitation pack up my gear and leave the event immediately.

Signed;
XXXXXX

[stathunter]

Michael,
Sounds like he is a real idiot. You can't fix stupid! WOW

[Michael_Lambert]

Well i don't know what to do now.

I have fired off the email and a quick note to my sister inlaw just letting her know what she will be dealing with and i have let her know that i will just stick to shooting the stuff before he shows up and then do the candid stuff when they are not doing the formals.

I figure i will leave it up to her the last thing i want is this guy just storming out having a hissy fit. But if she inists then she can deal with it but i don't want to bring addintinoal hardship on her for it unless she wants it

[-MasterChief-]

Michael, im really sorry to have read this but i really think that this dude is a professional a-hole. the only way to properly communicate with him is to stoop down to his level.