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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon G-series Digital Cameras
Thread started 26 Feb 2005 (Saturday) 06:22
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STICKY: POTN G-Series Speed Challenge Rules -- Master List

 
Don ­ Ellis
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Feb 26, 2005 06:22 |  #1

The discussion that follows is old news. For the current rules to the G-Series Speed Challenge, please go to
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=113480

Or read them in the latest challenge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There has been some question about how much hosts can alter the challenge rules. The answer is, They can't.
The only control a host has is choosing the topic and setting the boundaries for acceptable/unacceptabl​e photographs.

We need a set of rules that doesn't keep shifting challenge by challenge. So I've listed the rules below in Black and what the Host can change in Red.

Please have a look. Changes can certainly be made in the rules AFTER DISCUSSION AND CONSENSUS IN THIS THREAD.

If you'd like changes -- or want to see the rules remain the same -- now is the time to say something.

Cheers,

Don


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

POTN G-Series Speed Challenge #XX - [SUBJECT]


Challenge #XX is [TOPIC and any provisions, parameters, exclusions, etc.]

To submit, click "Post Reply" and put your Photo Name in the Subject Line. Don't forget your Camera Model.

Post until Sunday midnight GMT, [DATE].


[Name of host]
_______________

Please consider turning on Private Messaging in your profile.
This will allow the host to contact you about winning or ineligible photos. You turn this feature on by clicking "User CP, Edit Options, Enable Private Messaging" (about a third of the way down the page). Thank you.

_______________

Photo Submissions

1. Camera -- photos must be taken with a
Canon G-Series Camera (G1,G2,G3,G5,G6) or Pro 1.

2. Time -- any on-topic photo taken
at any time is eligible, although photos that have won other competitions should NOT be entered.

3. Size -- photo must be
EXACTLY 640 pixels on the longest side, with NO BORDERS. Odd-sized photos ineligible.

4. Post-Processing -- do whatever you like and the host will decide if it works.

5. Posting --

  • ONE PHOTO per photographer in each challenge.
  • Photo Name in the message subject line.
  • Camera model.
6. Commenting by Photographers -- While name and camera are all that are required, you're welcome to add any hints, story, special techniques, location, EXIF data.

7.
No Commenting by others -- When the posting is closed, comments can be made in this thread.

Hosting

1. The Challenge Host is the winner of the last challenge.
2. Choose a topic and list any special rules -- but DO NOT POST a photo.
3. Post the topic in a thread with this title: “POTN G-Series Speed Challenge #XX -- [TOPIC]”
4. At the end of competition, choose a Winner and two Runners-up and explain why the photos were selected. Comments on other photos are nice but not required.
5. Post these in a thread titled “POTN G-Series Speed Challenge #XX -- Winners.”
6. Winner starts with Rule #1 above.
7. If the winner can't be contacted and doesn't respond by Tuesday midnight GMT, the second-place winner will host the challenge. Etcetera.

Time

One challenge every week, on the following schedule:
  • New Topic ... Tuesday by midnight GMT.
  • Posting Starts ... Right after topic is announced.
  • Posting Stops ... Sunday midnight GMT
  • Winner Announcement ... Monday by midnight GMT.
_______________

Rationale

Here is my reasoning on certain rules that may be questioned:

Comments by Photographers -- by all means, say what you like about the photo -- other than, "Please, please choose mine." :) These challenges should be a learning experience, not just a bulletin board full of useless photos. If you have a trick to share, please do. If you know there will be obvious questions -- where was this taken, what was the shutter speed, did you use any auxiliary lenses -- it would be great to put them with the photo.

Here's an example of what I mean -- I won a Macro Challenge once upon a time and added information on taking the photo... http://www.pbase.com/c​tfchallenge/image/5212​644external link
We're here to help each other.

No Comments by Others -- The original reason for leaving this out was that it would make the thread very long -- 10 shots and 50 comments on the order of "Great job" or "Nice eye."

No Photo Posted by Host --
let the participants interpret the challenge topic.

Speed Challenge -- The idea was to be like Speed Chess -- get it done and get on with life. There are plenty of challenges that go for two weeks. I think the 1-week limit -- especially as the timing allows for photography on the weekend and the rules allow for posting old photos -- adds to the interest.

POTN -- Stands for Photography On The Net and is a nod to Pekka for creating and maintaining this valuable resource.

And that's about all that's on my mind... if you'd like anything to change... or if you'd like to second these rules... now is your chance.

Cheers,

Don



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teekay
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Feb 26, 2005 09:48 |  #2

I think it would be better not to allow comments or explanations until after the contest has been closed and judged. A photograph should stand on their own and the content should be enough to explain what it means - together with the title. The judge should decide whether or not it tells the required story without any explanation.

Question: Are collages permitted - two or more photos combined into one? Personally I think not, but the question might arise.

Otherwise the rules are fine and weekly is perfect.




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Raj
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Feb 26, 2005 19:06 as a reply to teekay's post |  #3

teekay wrote:
I think it would be better not to allow comments or explanations until after the contest has been closed and judged. A photograph should stand on their own and the content should be enough to explain what it means - together with the title. The judge should decide whether or not it tells the required story without any explanation. .

I second this.

Cheers


1DX, 5D, 20D with BG E2, Sigma EX DG 8mm F3.5 Circular Fish Eye, EF 15 mm f2.8 fish eye, EFS 10-22 mm f3.5-4.5, EF 24-70 F2.8 L mark ii, EF 24-105 f4 L IS, EF 16-35 f2.8 L , Sigma 35mm f1.4 A, 50 f1.8 mkII, 50 mm F1.2 L, EF f85mm 1.8, EF 100 f2.8 macro, EF 135 F2 L, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 EX HSM, EF 70-200 f2.8 L, IS USM mark ii, EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS, Sigma 18-125 f3.5-5.6 DC, APO 1.4x, G3, Cheapy Velbon Sherpa 435, Slick Carbon Fiber, Speedlite 430EX and 580EX with stofen OM-EW

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BottomBracket
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Feb 26, 2005 22:36 |  #4

Don, I second all the rules, and thank you for the time to formulate all of it. As with Teekay and Raj I agree that the pics should stand on their own merits, but I would also like to know the circumstances and workflow of the image. This way we will be able to learn how to create similar images, and learn much from each other.


Pio
Veni, Vidi, Canoni - I Came, I Saw, I Took A Picture With My Canon
Fotopio.com - Gallery of the Meandering Eyeexternal link
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

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thefly
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Feb 27, 2005 18:54 |  #5

Past topic and winner

Don,

I would also suggest adding a list of past topics and winners.

Lee


Lee
~ Be the person your dog thinks you are. ~
http://www.flyfamily.o​rgexternal link

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Don ­ Ellis
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Mar 20, 2005 19:59 |  #6

Change of Rules Suggestion -- New Photos Only

After participating in the "Egg" challenge and hosting the "Pencil" challenge -- both of which required that new photos be shot -- I would like to suggest that we require new photos for all future challenges.

I think this would help us focus our energies on creating an appropriate photo for the topic, rather than lazily picking one out of our existing bin. If you haven't got time to shoot, just wait a week -- that's the benefit of the Speed Challenge.

On a participation note, I noticed that the number of entries was equal or greater for these "must shoot" challenges as it was for the previous ones.

What do you think?

Don




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teekay
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Mar 21, 2005 09:59 as a reply to Don Ellis's post |  #7

I would suggest leaving the rules as they are.

Forcing people to take a new photo is not a bad idea but would penalize those who have no time to do it or perhaps are not in surroundings or weather that would permit a particular subject to be shot that week.

Forcing new photos would probably also lead to many subjects being in the "still life" category - probably not the one of choice for most of us.

Teekay




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Don ­ Ellis
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Mar 21, 2005 18:22 as a reply to teekay's post |  #8

teekay wrote:
I would suggest leaving the rules as they are.

Forcing people to take a new photo is not a bad idea but would penalize those who have no time to do it or perhaps are not in surroundings or weather that would permit a particular subject to be shot that week.

Forcing new photos would probably also lead to many subjects being in the "still life" category - probably not the one of choice for most of us.

Teekay

Thanks for your thoughts, Teekay...

Here are some more that I'm copying from the "Pencil" thread...

thefly
I think that the last two challenges worked well as new picture, because they were objects that most people had around the house. Personlly I would like to keep the challenge as new and old pictures allowed. I think that this will allow more people to post and also allow for a broader range of photographs in a weeks time. Just my two cents.

dbump
Regarding new vs. old photos, the point of this for me is to go shoot something, and learn from that, rather than search through my stacks for a hit, but I don't feel strongly about restricting old content. I do like the winner's choice approach (if you want new photos, either mention that in your competition post, or pick a topic that will make it more likely), just because it's more flexible, and keeps us on our toes.

BottomBracket
So far, I find myself in a quandary every week as I have a couple or more concepts that i have to choose from. Perhaps we can be allowed to post two entries per week? I am thinking that the first entry should be a new photograph, and the second could be either old or new. This is just a thought and I have no idea how we would know if a picture is new or not.

IainB
About the rules, this being my first participation, I think the new photo idea is a good one. As others have said, it forces all to get their thinking cap on and go and shoot for a purpose.

Thanks, everyone, for your comments. Looking over all the new/old comments, they seem about evenly split, so I guess we'll just wait for a few more... and then start a poll if necessary.

Cheers,

Don




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rich ­ lawrence
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Mar 22, 2005 05:22 as a reply to Don Ellis's post |  #9

I'm not sure that we should insist on new, It's worked for
me so far and I've learnt as a result of thinking about
and executing pictures of subjects that I wouldn't ordinarily
shoot....however in a group whose greatest no. of participants
has been @15-16 for any one challenge I think it might be
too limiting.....there are going to be weeks when even regular
participants will be unable to enter....hols, work etc.

Participation is severely limited already..(G-series only...
and quite right too!)
:)
and I don't think we should restrict it any further....
the more entries the better. It has been shown that by careful
choosing of the subject participants will almost certainly be
forced to shot 'new',but equally important will be the inevitable
call for our best 'landscapes' and 'sunsets' etc, for which the back
catalogue will be invaluable.

AND NO TITLES>>>>>EVER!!!! ;)

Rich


G5.......Oly OM1+various zuiko....Pentax S11+SV+various

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Raj
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Mar 22, 2005 21:40 |  #10

Don,
Reposting here.
IMO as long as the contestant owns the picture & it is shot with a valid camera, then I dont think it is appropriate to debar it just because it was shot in past. If the picture meets the contest criteria & is pertinent then why not allow it ? Agreed that posting "new" pics will make poeple go out & shoot but this may not always be practical.
Just my thoughts.

Cheers
- Raj


1DX, 5D, 20D with BG E2, Sigma EX DG 8mm F3.5 Circular Fish Eye, EF 15 mm f2.8 fish eye, EFS 10-22 mm f3.5-4.5, EF 24-70 F2.8 L mark ii, EF 24-105 f4 L IS, EF 16-35 f2.8 L , Sigma 35mm f1.4 A, 50 f1.8 mkII, 50 mm F1.2 L, EF f85mm 1.8, EF 100 f2.8 macro, EF 135 F2 L, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 EX HSM, EF 70-200 f2.8 L, IS USM mark ii, EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS, Sigma 18-125 f3.5-5.6 DC, APO 1.4x, G3, Cheapy Velbon Sherpa 435, Slick Carbon Fiber, Speedlite 430EX and 580EX with stofen OM-EW

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Raj
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Mar 22, 2005 21:45 |  #11

Also, I am not sure if we should be allowed to describe our pics initially. The judge should be able to visualize what the contestant wants to present. If the picture needs supporitng words to explain it then in true meaning it is a failure. Posting technical details is OK.
This is just my thought, I know very well I am not upto any standards at the moment but I have definately heard the proverb - A picture is worth thousand words :-)


1DX, 5D, 20D with BG E2, Sigma EX DG 8mm F3.5 Circular Fish Eye, EF 15 mm f2.8 fish eye, EFS 10-22 mm f3.5-4.5, EF 24-70 F2.8 L mark ii, EF 24-105 f4 L IS, EF 16-35 f2.8 L , Sigma 35mm f1.4 A, 50 f1.8 mkII, 50 mm F1.2 L, EF f85mm 1.8, EF 100 f2.8 macro, EF 135 F2 L, Sigma 70-200 f2.8 EX HSM, EF 70-200 f2.8 L, IS USM mark ii, EF 100-400 f4.5-5.6 L IS, Sigma 18-125 f3.5-5.6 DC, APO 1.4x, G3, Cheapy Velbon Sherpa 435, Slick Carbon Fiber, Speedlite 430EX and 580EX with stofen OM-EW

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Don ­ Ellis
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Mar 23, 2005 01:12 as a reply to Raj's post |  #12

If nothing else, we're exercising our brains as much as our shutter fingers -- and we're being pretty civilized about it. :)

Before I comment, let me reinterate that I'm not rabid about NEW-ONLY SHOTS, but they do make some sense. After all, it is a challenge.

Raj wrote:

> IMO as long as the contestant owns the picture & it is
> shot with a valid camera, then I dont think it is
> appropriate to debar it just because it was shot in
> past.


Don't confuse "ownership" with "usage." Just because you own a car doesn't mean you can drive on the wrong side of the road. You have to follow the rules -- and that's what we're here to discuss and hopefully agree on.

> If the picture meets the contest criteria & is
> pertinent then why not allow it ?


Laziness. Plus you're going to choose your "BEST OF" shot and put it against some poor guy or girl who didn't have that subject in stock and has to go out and shoot a new photo under time restrictions. ONLY-NEW SHOTS level the playing field to some extent.

Having said that, you have to remember we're international and seasons are different in different hemispheres, so you have to be careful not to choose "Icicles," for example.

> Agreed that posting "new" pics will make poeple go out & shoot
> but this may not always be practical.


So they can sit on the bench for a week. There is no implied "right" to participate in these challenges. If you can't, you can't.

> Just my thoughts.

Mine, too. :cool:

Cheers,

Don

P.S. This is not to you, but please don't let me hear anyone whine, "These are supposed to be FUN!" No, they're not... they're supposed to be challenges.




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Don ­ Ellis
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Mar 23, 2005 01:27 as a reply to rich lawrence's post |  #13

rich lawrence wrote:
> I'm not sure that we should insist on new, It's worked
> for me so far and I've learnt as a result of thinking
> about and executing pictures of subjects that I
> wouldn't ordinarily shoot. ...however in a group
> whose greatest no. of participants has been @15-16
> for any one challenge I think it might be too
> limiting...


Quantity is a virtue only in Haagen-Dazs and hot fudge.

> ..there are going to be weeks when even
> regular participants will be unable to enter....hols,
> work etc.


So? :rolleyes:

> Participation is severely limited already..(G-series
> only... and quite right too!)


I agree... this challenge has two major things going for it: G-series and One-week time frame. Only-new photos would be a third plus.

> and I don't think we should restrict it any further....
> the more entries the better.


What will 50 entries get us? Sloppier photos, no doubt, and the host won't be able to comment individually even if he or she wants -- although I realize this is not necessary. But I do think we're going to miss that ability to share tips, tricks and techniques, which would elevate this challenge above the let's-win-a-prize contest.

> It has been shown that by careful choosing of the
> subject participants will almost certainly be forced
> to shot 'new',


Then let's make it a rule. ;)

> but equally important will be the inevitable call for
> our best 'landscapes' and 'sunsets' etc, for which
> the back catalogue will be invaluable.


You remind me that we could use a list of off-limit, brain-dead challenges. Top of the list would be landscapes, sunsets and reflections.

> AND NO TITLESEVER!!!!

I know you're joking but as long as we're using our creativity, we might as well think up a decent title for our entries. If you don't want to, just use "pencil" or "egg" or "old guy" or "red." We'll know it's you... :lol:

Cheers,

Don




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teekay
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Mar 23, 2005 10:50 as a reply to Don Ellis's post |  #14

After reading all the comments so far re old/new photos, I suggest the compromise solution is best: Let the person setting the challenge choose each week whether or not the images should all be new.

We have quite enough limitations as it is, and I even agree with Rich that no titles or description should be needed to explain a photo to the judge. Lack of a title certainly should not disqualify a photo - after all, it always has a file name.

Encouraging a low number of entries merely so the judge can comment on each and every one should not be a factor. Commenting is hard work,and the judge should not feel obliged in every case to donate his/her presumably valuable time analyzing images with faults that must be obvious to the photographer in most cases anyway after seeing the winners and near winners.

In summary: ENOUGH RULES ALREADY!




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BottomBracket
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Mar 23, 2005 11:46 as a reply to teekay's post |  #15

I'd like the photos to have titles. It adds another layer of creativity.


Pio
Veni, Vidi, Canoni - I Came, I Saw, I Took A Picture With My Canon
Fotopio.com - Gallery of the Meandering Eyeexternal link
I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

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POTN G-Series Speed Challenge Rules -- Master List
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