580 one PW one 430

[rna1627]

Question: can a 580ex work wireless with one PW PLUS II Transceiver when you place the PW on camera and the 580 off? Second will the 580 in that situation fire the 430ex. So I would have two off camers strobes and one PW PLUS II Transceiver.

Thank you,

Rich

[Titus213]

No, and therefore, no.

There is nothing inherent in the 580EX that will allow a PW of any kind fire it. Therefore the 430EX will not be tripped by the 580EX...

Unless the PW has a PC port and you run a cable to the 580EX...but then you aren't wireless.

[PMatthes]

I agree with Dave... however, if you got another PW, you can put one on the camera, and one on the 580 to make it fire. Then *I believe* you can use the 580/430 compatibility to make it fire wirelessly.

But........ you will need to read the manuals of both, because the 580 needs to be in manual mode to make it work properly with the PW, and I'm unsure if you can fire another Canon flash while in manual mode.

Hopefully that helps somewhat.

[PacAce]

Originally Posted by PMatthes

I agree with Dave... however, if you got another PW, you can put one on the camera, and one on the 580 to make it fire. Then *I believe* you can use the 580/430 compatibility to make it fire wirelessly.

But........ you will need to read the manuals of both, because the 580 needs to be in manual mode to make it work properly with the PW, and I'm unsure if you can fire another Canon flash while in manual mode.

Hopefully that helps somewhat.

Yes, the 580EX will work in manual mode with PW remotes. The 580EX can then trigger the 430EX, also in manual mode. This is referred to as the hybrid wireless configuration (coined by Lon aka Flash Zebra). The one "gotcha" is that the max sync speed is reduced to 1/125 when using PWs. It may be even lower if using cheaper RF remotes.

[musicmaster]

Originally Posted by PacAce

Yes, the 580EX will work in manual mode with PW remotes. The 580EX can then trigger the 430EX, also in manual mode. This is referred to as the hybrid wireless configuration (coined by Lon aka Flash Zebra). The one "gotcha" is that the max sync speed is reduced to 1/125 when using PWs. It may be even lower if using cheaper RF remotes.

don't you mean 1/250th?

[PacAce]

Originally Posted by musicmaster

don't you mean 1/250th?

No, I mean 1/125 for the xxD and higher cameras and 1/100 for the DRebel series cameras and the 5D. That's why I said it was a "gotcha". 1/250 (or 1/200) would not be a gotcha since that's the normal sync speed of a camera.

[musicmaster]

Originally Posted by PacAce

No, I mean 1/125 for the xxD and higher cameras and 1/100 for the DRebel series cameras and the 5D. That's why I said it was a "gotcha". 1/250 (or 1/200) would not be a gotcha since that's the normal sync speed of a camera.

Is it the PW's fault for this? I've never heard of it before

[PacAce]

Originally Posted by musicmaster

Is it the PW's fault for this? I've never heard of it before

No, it's not the PW's fault. It's just the way the wireless ETTL works. The master usually emits the command signal to the slaves before the shutters open. This can happen because the camera and the master communicate the timing of the command signal via the 4 dedicated pins. When the master is fired via a PW or any RF remote unit, the command signal can only be emitted when it is triggered via the sync signal (when the shutters are open). Because it takes a finite amount of time to send the command signal to the slaves, the slaves fire well after the shutters have opened. If the shutter speed is set to 1/200 or 1/250, the slaves fire when the 2nd curtain have already started to close resulting in a black bar in the frame. This is the reason the max sync speed drops down to 1/125 or 1/100, to give the slaves time to fire before the 2nd curtain closes.

[musicmaster]

Originally Posted by PacAce

No, it's not the PW's fault. It's just the way the wireless ETTL works. The master usually emits the command signal to the slaves before the shutters open. This can happen because the camera and the master communicate the timing of the command signal via the 4 dedicated pins. When the master is fired via a PW or any RF remote unit, the command signal can only be emitted when it is triggered via the sync signal (when the shutters are open). Because it takes a finite amount of time to send the command signal to the slaves, the slaves fire well after the shutters have opened. If the shutter speed is set to 1/200 or 1/250, the slaves fire when the 2nd curtain have already started to close resulting in a black bar in the frame. This is the reason the max sync speed drops down to 1/125 or 1/100, to give the slaves time to fire before the 2nd curtain closes.

Very interesting. Thanks!

[Canatrix]

Originally Posted by PacAce

No, it's not the PW's fault. It's just the way the wireless ETTL works. The master usually emits the command signal to the slaves before the shutters open. This can happen because the camera and the master communicate the timing of the command signal via the 4 dedicated pins. When the master is fired via a PW or any RF remote unit, the command signal can only be emitted when it is triggered via the sync signal (when the shutters are open). Because it takes a finite amount of time to send the command signal to the slaves, the slaves fire well after the shutters have opened. If the shutter speed is set to 1/200 or 1/250, the slaves fire when the 2nd curtain have already started to close resulting in a black bar in the frame. This is the reason the max sync speed drops down to 1/125 or 1/100, to give the slaves time to fire before the 2nd curtain closes.

Sorry... I have a total noobe question...
I think I ran into what you are talking about above... I have a xti and I bought a cheap cable to set up to my 580 which would then fire my 430..... (both in manual mode)..... Using the camera in manual mode... I adjusted my shutter speed to 200 and when I took some shots, there was a big black bar covering half my photo.... At first I totaly though I did something to wreck my Lens (24 - 70L ....which is more than my damn camera!!). I was in total panic model. I finally figured out, if I lowered my shutter speed (pretty sure it had to be 100 or less), then the black bar would disapear. I thought it was maybe because the flashes were coming on so late, but I was not sure.

[Titus213]

Canatrix - sounds like you figured it out. That black bar is generally a sign that the flash is not syncing with the shutter.

[PacAce]

Originally Posted by Canatrix

Sorry... I have a total noobe question...
I think I ran into what you are talking about above... I have a xti and I bought a cheap cable to set up to my 580 which would then fire my 430..... (both in manual mode)..... Using the camera in manual mode... I adjusted my shutter speed to 200 and when I took some shots, there was a big black bar covering half my photo.... At first I totaly though I did something to wreck my Lens (24 - 70L ....which is more than my damn camera!!). I was in total panic model. I finally figured out, if I lowered my shutter speed (pretty sure it had to be 100 or less), then the black bar would disapear. I thought it was maybe because the flashes were coming on so late, but I was not sure.

Yes, that's exactly what was causing the black bar. Both the main and slave flashes were firing too late because you were triggering the master via a sync cable. You would not have this issue if the flashes were in normal mode and both triggered via a sync cable, or if you used the Canon off-shoe cord 2 or 3 (or compatible) cable.