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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #1
jasbleh
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Default First wedding

hey people just thought I'd show you some of the shots from my first wedding. it was a horrible day here in aus raining and cloudy. very dark in the shade of the trees extreme low light in reception.
shot solo. what do you's think.
40D
70-200 f4 is
17-85 is
ext flash
sorry for the large size

http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc66.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc23.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc15.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc71.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc96.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc86.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
more to come in a min

Oversized images converted to links. Please note: there is a maximum dimension of 1024 pixels for images displayed on POTN. There is also a limit of eight (8) embedded or two (2) attached images per thread.

Jon

Last edited by Jon : 15th of December 2008 (Mon) at 11:08.
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #2
jasbleh
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Default Re: First wedding

http://fc92.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc50.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20..._by_jasBleh.jp
http://fc11.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc42.deviantart.com/fs39/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg
http://fc49.deviantart.com/fs38/f/20...by_jasBleh.jpg

Last edited by SuzyView : 15th of December 2008 (Mon) at 09:40. Reason: Posting Rules - only 8 in first post
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #3
jayspec
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Default Re: First wedding

1. The color and setup of the dress are very nice. I especially like the textural similarities between the dress and the curtain. The car in the background kind of takes away from it.

2. Not even a keeper. Shallow depth of field, focused on the wrong place. Nice arrangement, but all for naught.

3. I'm not entirely against showing the back of the head, but I strongly believe that if you don't show the face, you have to tell a story. Why is she facing away? In this image, I don't know.

4. Not terrible I guess. The image would be a lot stronger compositionally if the girl camera right were at a differetn level than the girl in the middle. (I'm thinking if she continued along the diagonal of the first two, maybe?) I'm normally all about using the sun as a hair light, but the key is kind of flat and the color temperature difference is kind of stark.

5. Not terrible as far as portraits go, but there's not much to say that this is a bridal portrait. Same color temperature contrast issues as the shot above. Also, the front of her bust seems a little more in focus than her face. And speaking of the bust, some smoothing or cloning out of the imperfections on her chest might be in order.

6. Nice one. But ridding that finger of those tiny cuts is probably a good idea.

7. Is that her father or her husband? The elbow dipping out of the frame takes away from the composition, as do the framed photographs on the left.

8. OMGHORSE! Looking past that, you missed focus. The leaves above the bridesmaids are tack sharp, but the people - not so much. Compositionally I think you have one strong composition (bride, horse, and husband, but the bride needs to look at the husband) and one okay composition (bridesmaids and flower girl, if you brought the camera down to focus on them). If you're going to include both groups in the photo, I think you need to group them together better. Bring them closer. Make the bride on the horse the focus ('cause... hey! Bride on a horse!) And make sure everyone's looking in the same place.

Overall, not a bad first effort.
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #4
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Default Re: First wedding

9. Not bad. The faces are dark, and the B&W conversion isn't thrilling me. The faces are kind of dark compared to the bodies. My suspicion is that this B&W conversion is there to camoflage other sins.

10. Portrait photography, rule 1. Do not stack heads on top of each other! Especially when one of those heads belongs to the bride. Also, you lost a lot of light under the brims of those black hats. A reflector below them might have helped with that.

11. SELECTIVE COLOR! HATE! Okay, now that that's out of my system, if you DO use selective color (which you should never do, and yes I know people like it but those people are WRONG) you should make sure that the selective color helps the image tell the story. It should help you isolate content. This does none of that. The red cars steal focus from the bride and groom... who are not looking at a colored car! And leaving the color in those leaves and rose petals? I bet that took you a long time and was a pain in the butt.. For what? Why do you want the viewer's attention drawn to some crap on the ground?

12. Hmm. They're posing, but they're not looking at you. (Were you a second shooter at this wedding?) It's hard to judge the composition if your camera position is not the "intended" one. But I'd put them at different levels, and, again, have them interact with one another for more intimacy. Is this the husband? I thought the last guy was the husband. There really should be no doubt.

13. A bit better use of selective color. (But the lapels in the background? WHY!? What possible purpose could that serve other than to make sure that the viewer wonders what that red smudge is rather than looking at the subject of the photograph. I weep when I contemplate how long that took you.) Compositionally, their hands holding probably made the shot and you missed it. But it doesn't matter if you captured it or not, because you're telling the viewer in, literally, big red letters, STARE AT THE BOY'S CHEST!
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #5
jasbleh
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Default Re: First wedding

Quote:
Originally Posted by jayspec View Post
9. Not bad. The faces are dark, and the B&W conversion isn't thrilling me. The faces are kind of dark compared to the bodies. My suspicion is that this B&W conversion is there to camoflage other sins.

10. Portrait photography, rule 1. Do not stack heads on top of each other! Especially when one of those heads belongs to the bride. Also, you lost a lot of light under the brims of those black hats. A reflector below them might have helped with that.

11. SELECTIVE COLOR! HATE! Okay, now that that's out of my system, if you DO use selective color (which you should never do, and yes I know people like it but those people are WRONG) you should make sure that the selective color helps the image tell the story. It should help you isolate content. This does none of that. The red cars steal focus from the bride and groom... who are not looking at a colored car! And leaving the color in those leaves and rose petals? I bet that took you a long time and was a pain in the butt.. For what? Why do you want the viewer's attention drawn to some crap on the ground?

12. Hmm. They're posing, but they're not looking at you. (Were you a second shooter at this wedding?) It's hard to judge the composition if your camera position is not the "intended" one. But I'd put them at different levels, and, again, have them interact with one another for more intimacy. Is this the husband? I thought the last guy was the husband. There really should be no doubt.

13. A bit better use of selective color. (But the lapels in the background? WHY!? What possible purpose could that serve other than to make sure that the viewer wonders what that red smudge is rather than looking at the subject of the photograph. I weep when I contemplate how long that took you.) Compositionally, their hands holding probably made the shot and you missed it. But it doesn't matter if you captured it or not, because you're telling the viewer in, literally, big red letters, STARE AT THE BOY'S CHEST!
hmm thanks for your advice most is correct but alot is wrong, for example just because you dislike selective color doesn't mean the client doesn't (which they asked for) selective color takes about 2 minutes per image so no time wasted.
90% of the photos were not posed and were jounalistic style they just happened to be standing that way at the time so i took the photos. people looking at camera gives a realy un natural look so that point doesn't really make sence. alot of your advice would be helpful so thank you but you made some incorrect assumptions
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #6
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Default Re: First wedding

Maybe something like that

Sorry for touching your picture , i really like it
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #7
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Default Re: First wedding

I echo alot of what Jayspec said. He makes some very good critiques of all your images. Firstlty, to have someone take the time to give you better than "nice shot" is becoming a rare thing. Kudos Jayspec.

Now mind you, they are his critiques. I could say that image 1 (you should number your images postings btw), is too cool, for my liking and image 2 (imo) is no good for the shallow DOF reason. You may have done this on pupose, or the client wanted it like that specifically, we dont know that. If you have a minute with the dress and shoes (take the same time you staged the shoe shot), experiment and take some alternate shots, larger DOF, etc.

The horse shot, unique, but they are obviously country folk and that's ok. What i will mention, apart from the OOF, half of them are looking at you and the other half are looking at someone/something else. The person in the b/g of this shot should have been asked to enter the frame fully of step away before the shot was taken.

I think selective color is great, especially reds, they are very dramatic. I don't see the point of selective color for the b/g for the groomseman. It takes away from a very cute shot of the kids. Your DOF here is a little shallow as well (compare the girl's eyes to the boy's). I like the shot of the couple sitting infront of the cars, and I am ok with them looking away, you still see face and the shot has a candid feel to it (reminds me of a behind the scenes set up for the front on portrait). Your comments though on "people looking at camera gives a realy un natural look", odd comment, i'm thinking you meant something else.

Overall, you did good. Learn from peoples critique!
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #8
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Default Re: First wedding

I say if the client likes them thats all that matters. I think overall you did a nice job! My only critique (which you have already stated) was the posting of larger pics. It took a lot longer for me to load on my pc. Anyways great job!

Michille
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Old 13th of December 2008 (Sat)   #9
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Default Re: First wedding

Wow, kudos to jayspec for such taking so much time and putting in some great effort to offer you constructive feedback. Hopefully you'll learn from it, I know I gleaned a couple of things that I didn't notice on the first look and I agree with a lot of his comments.

People looking all over the place is simply untidy in a group shot like #8. Make sure to shoot several frames of every set up to get all eyes on you - you need those shots, too.

#2 goes in the bin, I think. There needs to be a crisp point of focus along with the shallow depth of field. Great concept, just need to take a few more frames to ensure you've nailed the focus.

I really almost like #10. But the bride's chin is hidden behind the little boy...which would work if they were cuddling or if she had her chin leaning on him to show the special relationship (I assume it's her son?). This is a nice shot, but a little thing like that - hard to notice in the moment - would improve it. As would giving a little more light under those hats...what a pain for you to shoot!

When you shoot portraits, especially brides, try to have them looking just slightly up at you instead of straight on or down on you. You have a nice shot here...a little love and a little more thought before shooting would make it even better. Well done.

And the selective colour on the last shot's background has got to go...I don't mind it on the boy's flower, though I don't think this shot needs it as the boy's eyes capture attention very well. A little more depth of field would have been good, but sometimes the shot and the expression are just there and you have to take it - I don't think the shallow DOF is bad here coz like I said, the little boy's eyes do capture the viewer and he clearly is the focal point of the shot.

The photo of the couple in front of the car is OK. I personally don't think them looking away works here because all it says to me is that they weren't paying attention to each other or to you, it doesn't look like they were looking at anything interesting out of frame that tells a story. You also cut her flowers off, watch that kind of thing - brides spend a lot of time and effort on the details so you don't want to clip them

If you were the solo shooter at this wedding you do need to watch the eyes and make sure you have some images of them looking at you. It doesn't look unnatural, it looks polished. Also, try some shots where everyone is looking away - in the SAME direction. Or have them looking at other members in the frame, or at the bride/groom. That can also work very well and is something a little out of the ordinary that many couples will like when they see it.

Happy clients are always good, but sometimes they are just happy...doesn't mean that the photo couldn't be improved or that it was done right With a little more attention to detail you can blow a client away!
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Old 14th of December 2008 (Sun)   #10
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Default Re: First wedding

#1 - too cool for my liking, separation between dress and curtain is not there.

#2 - delete, DOF is no good

#3 - I can see that the flower girl is looking at the brides' shoes etc.. but I would have her body facing camera and 45 degrees to our right, looking over left shoulder

#4 - nice curtains in the background (oops, is that the dress?).... little girl, look at the camera!

#6 - very nice!

#7 - must be her brother

#8 - brides brothers & sisters? no one is looking at the camera, don't like it.

#10 & #13 - someone should have fixed the boy's flower. That would be you if no one else does it.

I don't mind some selective colour, but I think the others have some good comments about where it shouldn't be used.

Very nice job.
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Old 14th of December 2008 (Sun)   #11
jasbleh
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Default Re: First wedding

Thanks to you all sorry for sounding so rude after reading what you have all said there probably is some better shots of the ones that i posted. shallow dof reall couldn't be helped as i said previously it was exremely dark cloudy day under the trees and indoors so shallow dof couldn't be helped as I was already shooting at iso 3200 most of the time and a really slow shutter. I think the problem with the horse one is motion blur not shallow dof I was using 70-200f4 is and never had a problem with its focus so i'm guessing motion blur. also as I said b4 most shots wern't posed for example the horse one everyone was standing there talking before they all walked down the isle and the one of the little boy and girl were there standing there together biind the cars.
I think most of all I really need to comunicate more and get more bossy with posed shots. I get scared of spoiling the moment etc. thank you all again. I'll try put some different ones up later and see if you like better.
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Old 14th of December 2008 (Sun)   #12
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Default Re: First wedding

Please allow me to clarify my position on selective coloring.

Pretty much every event photographer in the known universe is sick of it. The subject has much been debated here. My position echoes that of many: It's not my cup of tea, but what the paying client wants, the paying client gets.

However, the issues with the selective coloring in this set is the choice of the items to color. Selective color is one of the bluntest, most unsubtle ways we can lead the eye where we want it to go. So we have to make a vital artistic choice as to what it is we're going to color. Selective color must start with a strong shot, with a clear subject and clean composition. Then and only then can selective coloring enhance the image rather than detract from it.

Are we artists, or are we not? If we are not artists, then what exactly are we charging our clients for?

I also dispute the notion that "these are shot in photojournalistic style, and therefore they shouldn't be looking at the camera." Wedding photojournalism is hard. You not only have to nail beautiful moments with perfect composition, but you don't have the advantage of being able to tell people, "Okay, now move your arm a bit to the left and look at her..." If the untrained eye can't tell at a moment's notice that a shot is a photojournalistic "fly on the wall" moment rather than a failed portrait, then it doesn't work as a photojournalistic image.
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Old 15th of December 2008 (Mon)   #13
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Default Re: First wedding

There's a lot of great info/suggestions here. Helps us all out. Great shots as well and thanks for sharing
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Old 15th of December 2008 (Mon)   #14
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Default Re: First wedding

Well said Jayspec (post #12)!
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Old 15th of December 2008 (Mon)   #15
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Default Re: First wedding

I hope to get good, constructive critiques like those jayspec gave here the next time I post a few photos.. I actually agree with 99% of what he said.
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