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Thread started 17 Dec 2008 (Wednesday) 20:22
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1D vs 40D

 
The ­ Fox
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Dec 17, 2008 20:22 |  #1

I really hate to ask this, but I am considering upgrading to either a 1d mk II or a 40/50D as I just got a promotion at work and will have a few extra bills to spend. I currently have a 20D, which works very well but it leaves something to be desired.

I am really not needing more FPS, it would be nice, but not needed. I am also looking for better AF servo performance for fast moving people to full sized cars. I assume that the 1d is faster as it has it's own seperate processor for AF, but the 40/50D has the advantage in cross type points and low light compared to the 1D mk II(non N). The 40/50D also have the advantage in resolution and high ISO performance.

I figure that I can get a new 40D, grip, extra battery(giving me 4 total), another hand strap for the price of a used (25,000 articulations) 1Dmk II.

So, really it comes down to:
1D mk II
Pro-
1 series build
1 series focus
better sealing
It is a 1D
8.3FPS

Con-
Used
older
not so good high ISO compared to newer bodies


40/50D
Pro-
Better high ISO
More MP
Almost as fast
same size with grip
all the new gimicks
live view

Con-
Not a 1D
slower
More crop(could go either way with this one)


What do you all think that have both.
Nick


"I work from awkwardness. By that I mean I don't arrange things. If I stand in front of something, instead of arranging it, I arrange myself" -Diane Arbus
7D Gripped x2 | 50D Gripped | 17-50mm F2.8 | 35mm F1.4 | 50mm F1.4 | 85mm F1.8 | 70-200mm F4L IS |

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Stickman
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Dec 17, 2008 20:33 |  #2

If there is any doubt in your mind, don't handle any 1D series. If you do, you won't have much interest in the rest of the lineup.


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MattMoore
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Dec 17, 2008 20:36 |  #3

Of the two presented, 1D.




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The ­ Fox
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Dec 17, 2008 20:41 |  #4

Thing is that I used canon's(belongs to canon) 1D mk IIN, and it had just slightly better IQ then my 20D at the exact same thing. I am wondering what everyone else that has both what they say.
Nick

/edit: I will sell my soul for a 1D mk II for anyone that wants it. Or $500.
Slightly used, I am only 18 years old. Has lots of experience doing many odd things.
Nick


"I work from awkwardness. By that I mean I don't arrange things. If I stand in front of something, instead of arranging it, I arrange myself" -Diane Arbus
7D Gripped x2 | 50D Gripped | 17-50mm F2.8 | 35mm F1.4 | 50mm F1.4 | 85mm F1.8 | 70-200mm F4L IS |

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jacobsen1
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Dec 17, 2008 20:45 as a reply to MattMoore's post |  #5

I've owned a 1D, 1Dii and 40D. If you don't need FPS, and don't need the sealing the bulk of the 1 series will get old if you travel with a 1 series at all. The camera is much bigger/heavier, the charger is as well, and it gets old honestly. I ended up selling my 1Dii for a 5D and 1D, then sold that 1D for a 40D and haven't looked back. A lot of people here will tell you "1 series or bust", and I'm not knocking that camera. Just sit down and really think about what you want in a body. The 1 series is big and heavy and a drag at times, if that means you'll use it less don't do it. But if you don't care or don't travel enough it could matter go for it.

Also know the 1Dii has very "different" menus that are a PITA even once you learn them. I'd used 1 series film bodies before I got mine AND a 10D and it took me a night with the manual to learn how to change CFs even. It's not impossible, it's just different/weird. The 1Diii fixed this.

$.02
YMMV

let the 1 series fans all tell you 1 series or bust...


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caseyjohnphotography
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Dec 17, 2008 20:48 |  #6
banned

I just upgraded from a 40d to a 1d mark II n, such a great camera but a few things that aren't up to date with the 40d, like the ISO, screen size.

great for sports though 8.5fps and the 1d build is just amazing!


1D Mark III | 17-35 2.8L | 24-70 2.8L | 70-200 2.8L IS| 580EX II | 430EX II | 3 PocketWizard Plus II's

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Lane ­ 4 ­ Imaging
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Dec 18, 2008 10:20 |  #7

I agree with Stickman. Stay away from the 1D if you have any doubt. The 1D series is awesome - the viewfinder alone might make your decision. The 1.6X crop cameras (I have the 30D) are like looking through a tunnel after you have shot a 1D.

Toys vs. Tools - which one would you rather have?


Canon EOS 1D Mark III, 30D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS, EF 24-70 f/2.8L, EF 17-40 f/4L, EF 85 f/1.8, EFS 17-85 EFS

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smcclelland
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Dec 18, 2008 10:55 |  #8

I have to agree with Ben on this one, buying a 1 series just for the sake of owning a 1 series or saying you have a 1 series is going to be an utter waste of cash. Unless you absolutely need the weather sealing, the 8.3fps and the AF performance a 40D is going to be more than enough for you. I made the switch to a 1D3 and sold one of my 40D's because I needed better weather sealing for what I do and also needed a reliable body that would stay with me for many years to come. For me, the purchase of a 1 series body should be based on a need rather than a want.


Shawn | Flickrexternal link | Blogexternal link
There used to be Canon gear here but it disappeared.

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jacobsen1
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Dec 18, 2008 10:57 |  #9

Lane 4 Imaging wrote in post #6902510external link
The 1.6X crop cameras (I have the 30D) are like looking through a tunnel after you have shot a 1D.

a 40D is a world ahead of a 30D in terms of viewfinder. Still not a 5D or 1 series viewfinder, but MUCH better....


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FOR SALE: 5Dii RRS L-bracket, 430II, 12mm macro tube PM ME!

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AzzKicker
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Dec 18, 2008 11:23 |  #10

jacobsen1 wrote in post #6902715external link
a 40D is a world ahead of a 30D in terms of viewfinder. Still not a 5D or 1 series viewfinder, but MUCH better....


Whatever. I've had a 20D, 30D and 40D and they all looked just as crappy to me. I just traded my 40D for a 1DmkII and will never look back. The xxD series is nice and compact but for an actual job the 1D series is the way to go. The AF ALONE is all the reason to own one if you photograph any fast moving objects. AI Server on a xxD series just can't come close. Secondly, it just took me one time in a rainy football game to realize that a 1D series is needed.

LIke they said above. One is a TOOL and the other a Toy :)


Ruben D. Zamora
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Agamemnon
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Dec 18, 2008 11:59 |  #11

Lane 4 Imaging wrote in post #6902510external link
I agree with Stickman. Stay away from the 1D if you have any doubt. The 1D series is awesome - the viewfinder alone might make your decision. The 1.6X crop cameras (I have the 30D) are like looking through a tunnel after you have shot a 1D.

Toys vs. Tools - which one would you rather have?

I've got to disagree - I used to use the 1D Mark II N, and I loved the speed of AF, and having the cluster of AF points, but I wasn't needing all of the features of the body, and it just wasn't worth me keeping. I cross-graded to the 50D, and get better low-light performance, live view, and burst speed almost that of the 1D. Not to mention more dense pixels, which is good for bird photography.

As for the viewfinder, I can definitely tell the difference if I look at them next to each other - but for actual shooting, doesn't make a lick of difference personally - my eye adjusts for whatever I'm looking through, and I just don't care.

These are all tools...AND toys...Digital Rebels are used as tools by some pros, and the 1D series is used as toys by rich amateurs.

If you think a photo taken with a 1D is better than a photo taken with a Rebel XT, you're 100% wrong.

It's easier to take the shot, and the 1D is better for certain types of photography, but the 1D series is not *better* in every way. People with small hands I'm sure appreciate the Rebels much more than the bulky 1D series. I have big hands, so I chose the 20D originally.

Another person who used a 1D for a bit, and lived to not preach the inferiority of everything else.


Ryan
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The ­ Fox
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Dec 18, 2008 12:46 |  #12

That is where I am torn. I would not really use the weather sealing of a 1 series(non of my current lenses are sealed), but I would use the AF. Thing is that I am shooting such a varity of things, from little R/C's under crappy lighting(I was getting 1/320th@F2.8 1600 ISO), so better high ISO noise performance would be a good thing for me, but I am really unsure how good the 40/50D AF is for that kind of shooting. My 20D was having problems shooting these cars that move at 40+ MPH and I am standing there in the middle of the track trying to shoot them at less then 8' away from me. The 1D MK IIN I used could do it but it would sometimes not be fast enough for what I was trying to do. It did fair better then my 20D in terms of keepers, but it's noise levels at the same exposure were the same as my 20D. Not helpful when the person that is paying me to shoot this want a print that is 11x14" at 240 DPI, thus noise is rather hard to deal with. I tried to use my 5D, it was too slow, it could not even keep up with them.

I also do lots of studio work, thus AF is irrelevant for speed(I normally use my 20D tethered to get what I want then I shoot with a Mamiya RB67, then scan negs). The speed is also not needed under studio strobes or hot lights. This is why I am thinking a gripped 40D would be useful for live view tethered to my notebook.

Only other thing about the 1D mk II/N is that in terms of speed from my 20D, the is ready to shoot instantly, and the high frame rate was more noticeable then it would be to a 40/50D. I really love the sound of the shutter, it sounds so cool. But that is just because I did not own the camera that the time.

I am thinking just do the 1D mk II with a low count. I really just needed to ask the people that have used both cameras for there opinions.


"I work from awkwardness. By that I mean I don't arrange things. If I stand in front of something, instead of arranging it, I arrange myself" -Diane Arbus
7D Gripped x2 | 50D Gripped | 17-50mm F2.8 | 35mm F1.4 | 50mm F1.4 | 85mm F1.8 | 70-200mm F4L IS |

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Agamemnon
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Dec 18, 2008 12:53 as a reply to Agamemnon's post |  #13

I should probably answer the OP's question, though :D.

The upgrade to the 40D/50D from the 20D will be about the same as the upgrade to the 1D Mark II, just in very different ways. The 40D/50D menu systems will be identical to the 20D, so you don't need to re-learn anything.

The 1D menus aren't complicated, but they operate very differently than the consumer cameras. I got to learn them, and found that panning through zoomed images on the LCD was faster than with the 8-way hat.

Looking at your galleries, it doesn't look like you're too demanding of the AF in a camera - the skateboarding shots being the ones most likely to see a difference in the 1D - not that much, though, the subject fills most of the frame. As for the other shots, it looks like you might be happier with a smaller body that looks less conspicuous for street photography some of the time. You can't remove the battery grip from the 1D!

I was going to suggest grabbing some better glass before upgrading the camera, but it looks like you're well covered by the glass you can borrow/rent :D

EDIT: With the mention of shooting tiny R/C things, that's where a blob of 45 AF points would really come in handy - that's very similar to warbler and other small bird photography, with probably a little less randomness from the cars.

If it's specific stuff that you need it for, see if you can borrow the camera before you drop money on it, and test it in those harsh conditions. Or see if you can rent a 40/50D and see if they'll suffice.


Ryan
Website: http://www.ryanlindsey​photo.comexternal link
Gear: My Gear

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Lane ­ 4 ­ Imaging
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Dec 18, 2008 14:30 |  #14

"For me, the purchase of a 1 series body should be based on a need rather than a want."

HAH-HAH-HAH!!!! Good one!!! Based on need rather than a want! My wife would get a kick out that!!! I'm dying here! Thanks SMC for the good laugh!


Canon EOS 1D Mark III, 30D, EF 70-200 f/2.8L IS, EF 24-70 f/2.8L, EF 17-40 f/4L, EF 85 f/1.8, EFS 17-85 EFS

Lane 4 Imaging @ Flickr http://www.flickr.com ...lane4imaging/collec​tions/external link

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smcclelland
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Dec 18, 2008 14:41 |  #15

Lane 4 Imaging wrote in post #6903863external link
"For me, the purchase of a 1 series body should be based on a need rather than a want."

HAH-HAH-HAH!!!! Good one!!! Based on need rather than a want! My wife would get a kick out that!!! I'm dying here! Thanks SMC for the good laugh!

That was actually said in all seriousness :) I was quite content with both my 40D's for my motorsports work, there were the small things I felt I needed in my bodies that the 40D's didn't posess and with the release of the 50D I knew that the xxD line wasn't going to offer what I needed. Honestly if I hadn't got the deal I did on the Mk3 I probably would have just stuck it out with the 40D's and continued on. I've learned through all my gear buying/selling that I don't just get things anymore because I want them, I have to find a need for the gear in order to fill the spot.


Shawn | Flickrexternal link | Blogexternal link
There used to be Canon gear here but it disappeared.

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