Indoor Equestrian help :)

[m3gator]

Hi everyone. 1st post here. I've been lurking a while trying to learn to improve my photography skills. My daughter is a hunter jumper and it is the time of year (indoor rings) that really challenges my lack of real photography skill. I finally took the plunge and added a 70-200 2.8L is to my kit lenses in hopes of improving my chances with the 40D. I've been learning more about the camera each time out but still consider myself a novice. I have had some luck in aperture priority mode but realize that the best results will probably come in full manual. I would appreciate any advice on low light moving shot settings for this lens ... thanks in advance for any help ..... Steve

[DDCSD]

There is nothing wrong with using AV mode. I prefer M in most situations, but if used correctly AV will yield great results.

I have no idea on the type of lighting you're encountering, but I would guess that it is almost non-existent. You'll likely need to have the lens wide open at f/2.8 and ISO 1600 to get fast enough shutter speeds to avoid blurring. That would at least be a starting point.

Also, use only the center point for focusing. That will help assure that where the camera is pointing will be where it is attempting to focus.

The best thing you can do is go out and shoot, shoot, shoot. Then come back to POTN and post up the images that you are happy with and the ones that you are not quite happy with and ask for some advice. The good folks here can help you figure out what went wrong and what went right.

Welcome to POTN and the land of the posting!

[DDCSD]

Adorable shot, by the way!

[mspringfield]

The first thing to remember is no flash. A flash can be dangerous to both horse and rider. You never know how a horse will react to a flash. I have seen normally docile horse get really nervous and jumpy when faced with a flash.

Second. Aperture priority will work OK just set your ISO high enough that you can get at least 1/320 on the shutter. If the light is consistent enough then you are correct that Manual mode is best. Don't think that you have to get every jump. Pick a good spot where you have a good angle at 2 or 3 jumps and concentrate on them. That will also let you better use manual mode. Even if you have to adjust your shutter speed between jumps you should have plenty of time to turn the dial.

Good luck, have fun with it and post your results.
Michael

[Zivnuska]

Welcome to the forum!

Originally Posted by DDCSD

There is nothing wrong with using AV mode. I prefer M in most situations, but if used correctly AV will yield great results.

I have no idea on the type of lighting you're encountering, but I would guess that it is almost non-existent. You'll likely need to have the lens wide open at f/2.8 and ISO 1600 to get fast enough shutter speeds to avoid blurring. That would at least be a starting point.

Also, use only the center point for focusing. That will help assure that where the camera is pointing will be where it is attempting to focus.

The best thing you can do is go out and shoot, shoot, shoot. Then come back to POTN and post up the images that you are happy with and the ones that you are not quite happy with and ask for some advice. The good folks here can help you figure out what went wrong and what went right.

Welcome to POTN and the land of the posting!

That's good advice.

Indoor horse events are a challenge because very often there is so little light to work with. There is no way to know exactly how much light (and therefore exactly what camera settings) you will have. I agree DDCSD on starting Av, f/2.8, and ISO 1600. You might even try ISO 3200 (I think it is H on your camera, check your manual) to see what shutter speeds result. Post--get feedback--tweak your technique--shoot--post again. It's fun, occasionally frustrating, and then rewarding.

This pic of my daughter showing her POA was taken with a 30D and a 70-200 at 200mm, f/2.8, ISO 1600, Av, center focus point. With the lighting at this venue, it resulted in a shutter speed of 1/125.



Faster action requires a faster SS. Good Luck!

[m3gator]

Originally Posted by DDCSD

There is nothing wrong with using AV mode. I prefer M in most situations, but if used correctly AV will yield great results.

I have no idea on the type of lighting you're encountering, but I would guess that it is almost non-existent. You'll likely need to have the lens wide open at f/2.8 and ISO 1600 to get fast enough shutter speeds to avoid blurring. That would at least be a starting point.

Also, use only the center point for focusing. That will help assure that where the camera is pointing will be where it is attempting to focus.

The best thing you can do is go out and shoot, shoot, shoot. Then come back to POTN and post up the images that you are happy with and the ones that you are not quite happy with and ask for some advice. The good folks here can help you figure out what went wrong and what went right.

Welcome to POTN and the land of the posting!

Thank You Derek. I appreciate your advice and we have a show on Wednesday. I will take some shots and post them up. The center point focusing is a good thought as often there are decorations around the jumps and auto focus gets confused. Thanks again for your suggestions.

[m3gator]

Originally Posted by mspringfield

The first thing to remember is no flash. A flash can be dangerous to both horse and rider. You never know how a horse will react to a flash. I have seen normally docile horse get really nervous and jumpy when faced with a flash.

Second. Aperture priority will work OK just set your ISO high enough that you can get at least 1/320 on the shutter. If the light is consistent enough then you are correct that Manual mode is best. Don't think that you have to get every jump. Pick a good spot where you have a good angle at 2 or 3 jumps and concentrate on them. That will also let you better use manual mode. Even if you have to adjust your shutter speed between jumps you should have plenty of time to turn the dial.

Good luck, have fun with it and post your results.
Michael

Thanks Micheal ..... you are so right about the flash. I have had to coach many new well meaning parents on this issue. My results have been inconsistent and i have not decided if it is my panning ability or not doing a good job with the camera settings. Now with a good lens I don't have an excuse to not get it right Not only is the lighting a challenge with the indoor but the backgrounds can be poor. Thanks for your feedback and i will post some new shots soon.

[m3gator]

Originally Posted by Zivnuska

Welcome to the forum!



That's good advice.

Indoor horse events are a challenge because very often there is so little light to work with. There is no way to know exactly how much light (and therefore exactly what camera settings) you will have. I agree DDCSD on starting Av, f/2.8, and ISO 1600. You might even try ISO 3200 (I think it is H on your camera, check your manual) to see what shutter speeds result. Post--get feedback--tweak your technique--shoot--post again. It's fun, occasionally frustrating, and then rewarding.

This pic of my daughter showing her POA was taken with a 30D and a 70-200 at 200mm, f/2.8, ISO 1600, Av, center focus point. With the lighting at this venue, it resulted in a shutter speed of 1/125.



Faster action requires a faster SS. Good Luck!

Great shot Zivnuska! Beautiful daughter, great smile and wonderful outfit. Thanks for sharing the settings, that helps. That shot really turned out great for such a full zoom. Do you have any action ones? Thanks for your response!

[Zivnuska]

Originally Posted by m3gator

Great shot Zivnuska! Beautiful daughter, great smile and wonderful outfit. Thanks for sharing the settings, that helps. That shot really turned out great for such a full zoom. Do you have any action ones? Thanks for your response!

Here are some action shots. This venue, the Kansas Coliseum, has more light than many places. Even so, these were shot at ISO 3200 to get the SS quicker. All shot with the 70-200 f/2.8 IS. Sorry, these backgrounds are very busy and distracting but that is a common problem. A clean background would have helped these images a lot! The previous image of my daughter was so 'tight' at 200mm that the bokeh eliminated the distracting background.

1. 100mm, 1/800, 2.8, 3200
.

2. 115mm, 1/1000, 2.8, 3200
.

3. 148mm, 1/640, 2.8, 3200


4. 150mm, 1/640, 2.8, 3200





Here is a shot taken with the 85mm f/1.8 canon lens that is very popular with sports shooters. It was shot at f/1.8 in an effort to try to blur the background with a shallow depth of field. Still way too busy. Hopefully, you can learn from my mistakes. You may be able to get higher or lower or a different place in the riding arena to clean up the backgrounds.
5. 85mm, 1/500, 1.8, 1600

[m3gator]

O.K. everyone ..... thanks again for your help and thanks zivnuska for giving me some settings to start from. I did not have a great day shooting but I am making progress. It pays to really know your camera inside and out as when I got to the ring and tried to set up the camera settings it would not allow me to set the iso @ 3200. Of course as i was fumbling through the handbook everything got started so I tried to make the best of the 1600 iso I now know that you need to disable highlight tone priority? As I moved around it was interesting to see how the light reacted at different angles. I think my greatest challenge was to get the focus tracking along with the correct shutter speed. I tried a few shots with manual focus as i was having trouble panning with the rider and getting the shot right versus pre-focusing on a jump and just waiting for the rider. Unfortunately, my best shot was of another rider as i was practicing and not my daughter ... lol. This was their first show together and this first shot is probably the best shot of the group .... the shots that follow failed for various reasons (blur) and as I was shooting the aperture kept blinking. I tried to up the shutter speed and lower the iso but was confused as to what to do when you have the aperture set at 2.8 and it blinks. Anyway ....... feedback and advice appreciated .... Happy New year everyone.

Photo 1 - 70mm @ 2.8 1/200 1250iso
Photo 2 - 70mm @2.8 1/160 1600iso

I don't know how to add more than 2 pics so I will add more ........ also, these are straight out of the camera. Thanks again.

[m3gator]

Here are a couple other shots including my best shot of another rider Odly, I had better luck with almost head on shots versus 90degree angles .. go figure.

Photo 4 - 105Mm @ 2.8, 1/125 1600iso
Photo 3 - 135mm @2.8, 1/200 1250iso

[DDCSD]

Wow, that lighting is even worse than I thought!

I don't think you did too bad considering.

I would set up and try to do shots at the jump in the last photo. It looks like the lighting is much better there. You can set it so the your camera can go to ISO 3200 (the camera will say H instead of 3200) in your custom function menu (at least I think that is where you do it on the 40D).

When subjects are traveling towards you, you'll get less apparent motion blur. That is why that last photo is sharper than the rest of them. You can position yourself there to get some "safe shots". They also work well because you can see the riders face. Try to focus on the riders face, instead of the horses head though.

Another thing to do when you can't get shutter speeds up is to pan the action. I suspect this will work well in this situation. Find a spot on the horse and try to keep your center focus point pinned there while tracking the horse. Then do a 2-3 picture burst, all while keeping the focus point pinned as best you can on that same spot. This will keep the horse/rider fairly sharp while blurring the jumps and background.

Also, I don't know if this was mentioned, but be sure to use AI Servo and center point focus only.

[m3gator]

Derek,

I appreciate your comments to my first post and coming back to see my results. Shooting on this arena was a challenge with the many light and dark spots and the last jump was a good spot. Before today I did not know how to get to 3200 ISO and so I have opened up new doors. Your suggestion to track the horse makes a lot of sense and thinking about this I think I have tried to focus on the head of the rider or where I think they will be going through the jump. With the horse as a bigger target I should have more keepers .. thanks. I did use center point and AI servo but I think the jumps had so many decorations around them that my best shot was manual focus. Here is a shot across the arena at 70MM, 2.8 @ 800ISO and 1/200 - surprised this turned out with the dark horse and distance ..... I'll keep trying. Thanks again for the comments.

[danaitch]

When it's THAT dark, and your lighting is constant, you really can't beat 'M'. Either use a light meter, or take a spot reading from a grey card. Once you've got your settings you'll be fine.

Otherwise, a grey horse will fool the exposure meter in the camera into thinking it's a lighter scene than it really is and under expose it. Conversely, a bay or dark-coloured horse will fool your camera into thinking the scene's darker than it actually is and really slow your shutter speed down.

[mspringfield]

Ugly lighting but I agree that you did an excellent job given the conditions. Your timing was very good catching the the horse at the right moment. If all of your daughter's competitions are under similar conditions then a faster lens will be your best friend. A 200 1.8/2.0 is ideal if your wallet can stand it. Otherwise look into a 135 F2.

This one is with a 200 1.8.