calling all Elinchrom 17" beauty dish users...

[Rudi]

I'm interested in hearing from people who have first-hand experience with the Elinchrom 17" Minisoft beauty dish. What do you think, would you buy it again, etc, etc.

Let me explain where I stand: I have recently purchased a Ranger system for my location shoots. I also already have the Deep Throat, which is a wonderful modifier and simulates a large beauty dish quite well, but...

... a lot of my location shoots are head and shoulder type portraits, with the occasional full length shot. The Deep Octa (and the 53" Octa which I use for some things) can be a pain to set up on location. Not only that, but it just loves to catch the wind and try to tip the light over! Not a problem when there's an assistant holding onto the stand, but a pain when I'm on my own.

Now, I know that some of you set up softboxes everywhere you go, and that's great - for you! Since I tend to use the Deep Throat to simulate a beauty dish a lot of the time, I'm wondering whether I wouldn't be better-off just buying the real thing! It would save a lot of setup hassles on location a lot of the time, and I will still have the Deep Octa and the 53" Octa in the car anyway, so they'll be there when I need them. I'm thinking of getting the smaller version, since the Deep Octa is my large beauty dish, if that makes sense.

Now, I'm hoping that folks who use the smaller Elinchrom beauty dish will pipe up in here, and tell me what they think of it. I'm sure it will be wonderful for the close-up portraits that I have in mind for it, but what does it look like on a full-length shot? Would that be putting it too far away from the subject to be effective? I know about the theoretical sweet spot for a beauty dish, but has anyone broken the rules? What did it look like?? Please post any samples you have, using the 17" dish.

OK, let me have it. Don't be shy!

[Hermes]

If we're talking strictly outdoor work, for head & shoulder shots it is good, for full-length it is better than nothing - similar to a small umbrella.

I wouldn't want to lug it around on location to save the few seconds it takes to set up a softbox. If weight/wind-resistance is the main factor, some heavier-duty stands and weights would be a much better investment IMO.

[Rudi]

I noticed you weren't a big fan when we had this conversation earlier, Hermes (before my Deep Octa purchase).

[steveathome]

Hello Rudi,
I purchased the white Mini-soft dish, unfortunately the size purchased was more due to cost, rather than my original wish for the full sized dish.
On spec the dish only gives about 2º less coverage, but obviously in the real world, the light will be a little more concentrated.
I was introduced to the full size BD by a pro tog who shoots a lot of teen makeovers with it, including groups of up to 7 or so.

I am a 50+ apprentice () in lighting so wont attempt to go beyond my capabilities of explaining the qualities of the dish. I can only say I don't have any regrets, its certainly more portable than the full size BD. Unfortunately I don't shoot many adults, but I would personally give it a thumbs up for full length with couples at least, IMHO it gives a pretty even coverage.

The links below, are really quick fun images, using the Mini-soft as single light source for the subjects, so not much modeling is present, nor do they represent a full length adult image, but I hope they are of some use to you in evaluating the Mini-soft.
All shot with the silver deflector.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...&postcount=255
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...77&postcount=1
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...06&postcount=1
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...00&postcount=1
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...81&postcount=1
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...33&postcount=1

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Rudi

I noticed you weren't a big fan when we had this conversation earlier, Hermes (before my Deep Octa purchase).

It's not that I'm not a fan (I still have mine), it's just that there are only a limited set of circumstances in which it is the best tool for the job.

Outdoors it is actually at its best as the wide spread becomes an advantage, but I get the feeling that you are thinking of buying it just because it's heavy, in which case you'd be better off spending your money on good stands that will allow you to use any modifier.

If you really want to do both headshots and full length shots with one dish then, from my experience, you'll really want something larger. I can get away with using my Mola Setti (28") for full-length fashion work but sometimes I even wish that was a bit larger. I'd really look into upgrading the stands and sticking with the octaboxes if I were you - as long as you can get them to stand up, the latter are so much more versatile and better suited to the sort of work you've described.

[Jannie]

I suppose it's fine if you are shooting someone who has perfect skin and is young, so far all I've found it useful for is some table top stuff, but I'd rather grab the Deep Octa for that and the 53" for people. Maybe I just haven't found my savant with the Beauty Dish yet so I'll hold out hope. You might also get the cloth diffusion to go over the front to offer some variety, I've used it and it seems pretty good, I have used it as a fill light and it doesn't throw light all over the place like a shoot through umbrella.

But, and it's a bit BUT, I've found the little reflector dish that comes with the Beauty Dish really great when used in the Deep 39" Octa, that is just the most intelligent modifier I've used to date.

[Rudi]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Outdoors it is actually at its best as the wide spread becomes an advantage, but I get the feeling that you are thinking of buying it just because it's heavy, in which case you'd be better off spending your money on good stands that will allow you to use any modifier.

Nope. I'm thinking of this as just another tool in the toolbox, where rather than setting up a complicated Octa I can just use this when the situation calls for it (i.e. head and shoulders, maybe try a full-length shot if I think that it will give me the light I want.

If I just wanted simple answers with compromises, I would stick with speedlites!

I do appreciate your input, Hermes! I'm just describing my original intentions, my reasons for asking these questions. I certainly don't want to spend my money unnecessarily...

[Jannie]

The Elinchrom Octoboxes seem to get much easier once you are used to them, when I think of lighting something, I tend to only question which Octobox I want to use for the shot not whether I want to use one or not.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Rudi

Nope. I'm thinking of this as just another tool in the toolbox, where rather than setting up a complicated Octa I can just use this when the situation calls for it (i.e. head and shoulders, maybe try a full-length shot if I think that it will give me the light I want.

If I just wanted simple answers with compromises, I would stick with speedlites!

I do appreciate your input, Hermes! I'm just describing my original intentions, my reasons for asking these questions. I certainly don't want to spend my money unnecessarily...

Then you'll have to forgive me for asking more questions...

If it's not for the weight, why are you looking at buying this dish? As Jannie has already said, it takes good skin/make-up to successfully use a beauty dish, especially one this small - do you feel that your existing modifiers are too large and give light that is too soft? if so, have you tried using a solid deflector on the deep octa and pulling it back slightly? that will give you a similar light to a small beauty dish - similar enough to make carrying around a separate beauty dish pointless IMO.

As for setting up the softboxes, it gets easier with time & practice. You can store & transport the rotaluxes with the rods in place anyway - I cant see how it would take anyone more than thirty seconds to open one out and slap the diffusers on.

[Rudi]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Then you'll have to forgive me for asking more questions...

If it's not for the weight, why are you looking at buying this dish? As Jannie has already said, it takes good skin/make-up to successfully use a beauty dish, especially one this small - do you feel that your existing modifiers are too large and give light that is too soft? if so, have you tried using a solid deflector on the deep octa and pulling it back slightly? that will give you a similar light to a small beauty dish - similar enough to make carrying around a separate beauty dish pointless IMO.

I think I'm looking for a white dish reflector, something that is less specular than my 10" high performance reflector (tried putting a sock over it but it has a narrow beam, and I can't move it close enough to my subjects, it hasn't got the coverage). I could work much closer to the subject than with the Deep Octa, which has to be right up high for some of these shots. Don't get me wrong, the Deep Octa and the Portalite boxes actually look quite good... I just keep thinking that I want a high performance reflector with a white finish and wiiiide coverage.

[steveathome]

Originally Posted by Rudi

I just keep thinking that I want a high performance reflector with a white finish and wiiiide coverage.

Maybe this image will give you an idea of coverage of the smaller Elinchrom beauty dish (Mini-soft)
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...5&postcount=20

Fitted to a 400BX

[Rudi]

Thanks Steve! That gives me a rough idea.

[Hermes]

Originally Posted by Rudi

I think I'm looking for a white dish reflector, something that is less specular than my 10" high performance reflector (tried putting a sock over it but it has a narrow beam, and I can't move it close enough to my subjects, it hasn't got the coverage). I could work much closer to the subject than with the Deep Octa, which has to be right up high for some of these shots. Don't get me wrong, the Deep Octa and the Portalite boxes actually look quite good... I just keep thinking that I want a high performance reflector with a white finish and wiiiide coverage.

Thanks for clarifying.

The coverage is veeeery wide (which is why I keep going on about how difficult it is to use it in studio) so it sounds like the dish would be suitable for your needs (I'm assuming it's full-length shots you want wide coverage for)... but then again so would a white reflective umbrella which would be much cheaper and easier to transport & store.

[Rudi]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Thanks for clarifying.

The coverage is veeeery wide (which is why I keep going on about how difficult it is to use it in studio) so it sounds like the dish would be suitable for your needs (I'm assuming it's full-length shots you want wide coverage for)... but then again so would a white reflective umbrella which would be much cheaper and easier to transport & store.

The white umbrella crossed my mind, too. I have a small Elinchrom brolly that I might play with first. It's meant to be a shoot-through, but will use it for bounce and it should give me some idea. I also have a silver one, but then I'm back where I started!

I can rent the large Maxisoft here, but not the smaller one. Might do that first, just to see what's what, even though it will be much larger and heavier, and as much pain as the larger softboxes, if not more. I wish I could rent the smaller dish, but no one around here has it...