Shooting a dog show, questions about rates?

[Akire]

I am going to be shooting a local dog show next week for my own personal portfolio. However, I plan on contacting the kennel club that is hosting it (and the individual breed clubs after the show) and asking them if they are interested in any of the photos. If someone takes me up on the offer, is the best way to charge a flat per-photo fee? The smaller kennel clubs and their members I know aren't going to have much funding, so I don't mind a reasonable fee. However the hosting club's budget might be another matter- Animal Planet films this show every year! Any suggestions? I consider myself a knowledgeable amateur with some nicer equipment- but I certainly won't be the most experienced photographer there.

This is a multi-day show where exhibitors will often kennel dogs when they are "off duty"- this area is also used to get the dogs ready for the ring and is open to the public. Is there any type of release I should worry about regarding people's personal dog pictures?

Any advice and suggestions are appreciated!

[tracknut]

You may run into a little brick wall called the official event photographer. It is quite normal for the event program to list the photographer and to state that other photography business (ie, not of your own dog, but for sale) is not allowed. It is also quite common that the clubs themselves will get copies for the official photos for their own marketing purposes. But give it a shot, can't hurt to try.

Dave

[amfoto1]

Dave is right....

Step 1 is to find out if they already have an "official" photographer and what their limitations on shooting are. The hosting organization, or anyone they might have hired to organize the show, will be able to tell you.

The bigger the show, the more possible it is they have limitations on amateur photographers just coming in and taking shots, too. Most don't limit competitors from taking their own photos, though, or having friends or family or even hired pros take them for them. Use of flash may be limited at certain competitions, too. (For example, I use flash a lot at English and Western style equine events, but not at dressage events.)

If it's a big, high profile show, there will be one or more of each of two different types of photographers: commercial and editorial. The commercial photographer is shooting images on behalf of the participants, print and digital file sales, etc. They are often shooting for stock, too. They are hired by the the organizer/host and usually want to be as exclusive as possible.

The editorial photographer is usually hired magazines and websites. Any videography crew (such as Animal Planet's) also might have a still photographer of their own on hand. These photographers might be staff, freelance assignments or even completely freelance shooters. Again, exclusive access is nice, but not as important and not all that common.

In very few cases a photographer may wear several hats, shooting on behalf of several different clients... but that's rare and usually only very, very well established and highly experienced photogs are so fortunate.

You are asking primarily about the commercial photographer role here. I'd be quite surprised if they don't already have someone lined up. Usually these arrangements are made as much as a year in advance.

If not, and they agree to let you shoot, then the next step is the matter of signing an event photography contract agreement with them. Now, this may or may not involve any kind of shooting fee. These days the photographer often doesn't receive a fee, only makes money selling prints to participants and stock images after the fact. In fact there's what I consider a pretty ugly trend in some areas and types of event toward a "pay to shoot" mentality, where the organizer/host demands the photographer pay a sizable fee up front to be allowed to shoot at all! I don['t pay these or even try to shoot this type of event.

Once the contract is hammered out and signed, you'll need a place online to host your image thumbnails, a virtual gallery for participants to visit and buy. You might also need to set up on site at the event to make and sell prints, which requires a few thousand dollars worth of computers, printers and skilled people to run them and make the sales while you do the shooting. There may be vendor fees to pay in advance, and/or fees for electricity. And you should scout the location in advance, to see what equipment you need to buy or rent in order to get the shots.

If it's a big event, you can't be everywhere at once, although you will be one of the first people to arrive each morning and one of the last to leave. So you might need to hire some additional shooters to help out. They must be good photogs you can trust to get the shot and that you know have a pro level kit of equipment, with proper backup, etc.

There are two major types of shots I take at certain larger events. One is a posed, studio lighting "awards" shot. The other is more of an action/candid shot, taken during the competition, or on the sidelines. Obviously, the posed shot generally means a set of portable studio strobes, backdrop, etc. I don't offer or try to do this at many smaller events, but it's popular at larger ones.

The action shots are simply that.... More candid stuff done practically anywhere, but especially from angles where the general public and participants can't go. The reason for this is just that more and more people have their own cameras and take their own candid shots at events. The only ways I can really compete with this fact are to get better shots, get shots from angles they don't have access to, and get "impossible" shots by using pro quality equipment that makes it possible for me to keep on shooting when the typical participant has had to give up.

Now, if there's already an "official" photographer for the event, it might actually be an opportunity for you. Talk with them about helping them out, rather than trying to compete with them or work directly with the organizer/host yourself. In fact, this is a great way to get some mentoring, as well as avoid some of the major up-front investments in equipment and staffing.

Usually the organizers and hosts get free usage of some of my images, on their websites and brochures, etc., in exchange for links from their sites to my thumbnail galleries.

For any image to be used in a commercial way (advertising, etc.), you will need a model release on any recognizable person, and in competitions at a high level also had better have property releases on any recognizable animal, too. In general, though, a photo is worth 10X more (i.e., it's commercially salable) if it's released, than if it's not.

Often times an organizer or host has competitors sign a waiver as part of their entry in the event. These often indemnify the organizer against injury claims, but more and more include a clause about photography and allowing the organizer some limited usage of images made by the organizer or on their behalf. However, this is a very narrowly defined type of release, and not one I'd really feel adequate for more high value usage of images in the commercial market. So, a 'real' release is still very important.

To get releases signed for speculative purposes, it's common to pay $1 and/or give a free 8x10, etc. But if you get some good shots and are free to use them, this investment up front can be well worth it. Of course, you also need to have a good outlet to sell them, such as a stock photo agency (not a micro stock agency). Because stock sales might be important, look at stock sites' sample model/property releases in particular. Those touch on some things that are important. The ASMP release form is another good starting point. It's in the book "Business & Legal Forms for Photographers", co-published by ASMP. If any kids are recognizable in any images, their parents or guardians need to sign a model release for them.

The more participants know you from past events, the more they are happy, willing and inclined to sign a release. It's matter of trust that you will not use the image in any way that they would be unhappy about and that you will only use images that make them look good and aren't embarrassing in any way. Example: A photographer I know caught a series of shots of a horse and rider taking a nasty spill at a recent event in my area. She put it up for sale for editorial usage on Getty Images - no release necessary for that - and sold it to a number of media outlets. She's gotten a lot of backlash from the participants about doing that and some events have even tried to block her from photographing. They may not be able to block her access entirely, but she'll not be getting any paid commercial gigs from them, that's for sure! And since the real money in photography is on the commercial side, not on the editorial, I'm sure she's feeling the effects!

This also goes to knowing a lot about your subject. For example, I need to be able to tell when I've got a good image of a rider and horse performing a move properly, as opposed to being out of position or making a misstep. To someone not familiar with equitation and these competitions, the differences may not be very obvious. Although I've taken a lot of shots of horses and riders over a number of years, I am always seeking to learn more about the sport and exactly what makes for a good performance, and image that captures it.

Of course it helps immensely if you have a very well established reputation for this sort of thing, such as Richard at www.chanan.com, who has been shooting on behalf of Cat Fanciers of America for 30 years or so now. Now, with cats it's a bit different than the horse shows I generally shoot. For one, almost all of Richard's shooting is done in a portable studio, in fact a small and carefully enclosed one to prevent any feline escapes! The last show I saw him at he was working by himself as fast as he could all day long for three full days in a row, and always seemed to have a waiting line of customers! Meanwhile a competitive commercial photographer... "new kids" with a whole lot bigger and fancier booth and studio lighting setup on the other side of the hall... appeared to have 6 employees and were having trouble finding a steady stream of clients.

[Akire]

wow, thank you so much for the wonderful information! That is a lot of great knowledge. I am a little embarrassed to say it's a little above and beyond my skill level for this event. I like the point about working with the official photographer, that might be a reasonable request. I've been to this show a couple years ago and took photos then with no problem- hopefully its the same thing this time around.

Thank you so much for the advice, I'm sure I will use it- if not this event then another!

[hypertech]

How big is the dog show and what kind? The ones we usually go to are smaller conformation shows. Most people want files now (for their websites) so I don't look at print prices as much to tell you anything there. The going rate seems to be $5-$20 per shot or $40-60 for a CD of all shots taken of your dog. These are "formals". I've not seen a successful "candid" photographer at these smaller shows.

We did have a photographer try to sell us action shots from a weight pull. I can't remember what she wanted - something like $25 a picture. No one bought a single shot because of her pricing. She probably could have sold a lot of $50 CDs but people didn't want to sit there and try to figure out which one or two shots to order so they skipped it altogether.

She also lost a buisiness opportunity because though the shots were very good but she didn't tell the organizers that she was going to try selling the images - only that she wanted to come and take some photos. When people started complaining about the price of "the photographer" the organizers were taken off guard and a little upset. I don't think she was invited back free or otherwise.

[Akire]

Its a 4 day event including the major conformation show and some agility and flyball events also. Its the biggest dog show of the year.

Thanks for the information about that photographer at your event- it gives me some ideas for how best to charge if someone is interested. I'm not expecting to make a profit, hopefully just cover the $20 entrance fee. I go every year anyways, but it would be nice if I could make a little extra cash.

When I contacted the event coordinator inquiring about the official photographer this is the response that I received:

"No, there are professional photographers who pay a fee to shoot at our shows. I am sorry. However, you might talk to one of them and ask if you could follow them around to see what it entails."

oooh.. PAY to shoot at the show? Really? Why would someone do that?

[amfoto1]

Originally Posted by Akire

... PAY to shoot at the show? Really? Why would someone do that?

Because they feel they can still manage to turn a profit off it, and the organizers told them "take it or leave it".

Actually, as I mentioned earlier, there are at least several possibilities as to what the organizer might actually mean by that statement, especially at a major event...

One is that the commercial photographers pay a hefty up-front fee "for access". I find that dangerous ground and a bad precedent to get involved in. Usually this sort of thing gets started due to competing photographers having a bidding war amongst themselves, and the organizer waking up and realizing they have a potential revenue stream and taking advantage of the situation.

Another comes about for similar reasons, but involves the photographer agreeing to share a percentage of their sales. I find this just as objectionable, perhaps even more-so because it means opening your books to the organizer's scrutiny.

A third and more reasonable thing would be a "vendor's fee" of some sort. This may be "space rent" to set up a selling booth, or perhaps fees for electrical hookup, or an advertisement in the program, or for sponsorships, or a little of each. It's a bit more reasonable, so long as it's a big show with lots of sales potential.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear an organizer refer to any of these in that manner: "fees paid to shoot". All have to be handled with care, they cut into profits. And, I've seen the demands for fees spiral up year to year, to the point that the organizer is unable to get anyone to come shoot, and then the participants (the organizers "customers") are likely to complain, at least until they buy a camera or invite a friend to come shoot.

I charge reasonable print rates. On site printing is a little higher than online ordering. And selection is very limited on site, as well. Online I have 65 or so sizes and finishes of prints to choose, plus another 35 or so printable "novelty" items available.

My rates for 4x6 prints are $8 onsite, $7 online. 5x7s are $11 onsite, $10 online. 8x10/8x12 are $22 onsite, $20 online. Digital files are available for personal use for $18 apiece.

Now, I'm dealing mostly with equine events. But can tell you that we have a lot of people spend time browsing images at our booth at the larger events. We like to do onsite sales whenever possible, because it nearly doubles our gross from an event. However, it's just not practical for smaller shows, because it also adds a lot of expense.

Online we see lots of visitors to our galleries. More if they are well-linked to the event/organizer site, as well as if we have opportunity to promote ourselves in a variety of ways, and/or when it's a repeat event where people know us.

We haven't sold CDs of images to date. Of course we'd consider it if customers appeared to be interested, but really haven't had any requests. We have provided digital images for a variety of purposes: personal use, publication in magazines and newsletters or online. Those are simply handled on a case-by-case basis, since the request aren't really all that frequent (perhaps a bit surprising, since I'm in the middle of Silicon Valley).

Have fun at the show! I haven't photographed a dog show yet... it sounds like fun. The most fun type of show so far has been miniature donkeys.

[cpagility]

Are you talking about the Rose City Classic in Portland? If so I looked at the premium and there are 4 Official Show Photographers who will most likely be busy in the breed rings and taking win pictures. I did not see an agility, obedience or rally photographer listed but that doesn't mean there isn't someone or several people. You can probably get by with taking photos (you're going to find that the lighting and trying to take action shots are going to be a new challenge). I did run into problems shooting at a AKC trial recently when the official photographer complained that I had images for sale online. I talked to the photographer and made the gallery view only and the problem was solved. If you are interested in shooting dog agility you can see some of my photos at www.dogsportphotos.com .

If you enjoy shooting dogs I'd recommend you go and do it for the fun and experience.

[cpagility]

Nice photos Dave. I enjoyed your agility shots and was looking for a couple of pups that I've bred that compete up north.

Karen
www.dogsportphotos.com