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Old 6th of April 2009 (Mon)   #1
pawelx
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Default DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

Hi, can you please help - maybe my workflow is wrong, or I don't understand something. I am using Digital Photo Professional. I have a full-crop RAW file, apply sharpening/saturation/contrast in DPP, crop it a little using Trimming Tool to fit my desired print format (5x7), then save the RAW file (Ctrl+S), go File->Convert and save. I then view in Synchronized mode the resulting JPG alongside the RAW (with changes applied) and JPG is visibly softer. I am wondering whether the JPG was created off unprocessed image, or what? I am really lost. Or maybe it's optimized to the big print, and is not renderred properly on my cr*ppy laptop screen?
I use highest quality JPG (quality=10).
Obviously, I can't post the images (JPG vs. RAW) for comparison here..
Can anyone please help?

Thanks!
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Old 6th of April 2009 (Mon)   #2
greg_w
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

I've read that DPP can be a little wonky when it comes to displaying images. Have you tried viewing the JPEG with the Windows viewer and comparing it to the JPEG when viewed in DPP? Do you see a difference there?
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #3
pawelx
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_w View Post
I've read that DPP can be a little wonky when it comes to displaying images. Have you tried viewing the JPEG with the Windows viewer and comparing it to the JPEG when viewed in DPP? Do you see a difference there?
I have, with windows viewer. I had one window open with JPG, and DPP open with the RAW version in the other window. JPG is softer, even if quality=10 and no re-sizing.
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #4
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

I think I know what the problem may be. DPP sets Default Noise Reduction according to the High ISO NR set in your camera. In fact, even if HINR is disabled in the camera it sets Luminance NR to 2 - it's not clear whether this is a bug or intentional; a week ago after installing 3.6 I thought it had been fixed but I was mistaken. However, even though the NR is set and will be done during a conversion, it is not done to the display image unless you click the Apply button on the NR tab. (in fact it is not done to the display at all unless you have High Quality Display selected in Preferences.) NR causes softening, but you won't see the effect unless you click Apply, so the jpg is softened but the preview isn't.
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #5
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tzalman View Post
I think I know what the problem may be. DPP sets Default Noise Reduction according to the High ISO NR set in your camera. In fact, even if HINR is disabled in the camera it sets Luminance NR to 2 - it's not clear whether this is a bug or intentional; a week ago after installing 3.6 I thought it had been fixed but I was mistaken. However, even though the NR is set and will be done during a conversion, it is not done to the display image unless you click the Apply button on the NR tab. (in fact it is not done to the display at all unless you have High Quality Display selected in Preferences.) NR causes softening, but you won't see the effect unless you click Apply, so the jpg is softened but the preview isn't.
WOW! I can’t try this right now (at work), but it sounds like your answer is backed by A LOT of experienceJ

So to confirm, I’ll probably end up re-phrasing what you said, but I want to get it right, as I won’t have a chance to test the results until maybe 12 hours from now..
(1) Noise Reduction softens the image
(2) I don’t remember manipulating this value in DPP, so it’s probably set to default value, which you say will soften my image
(3) But I won’t see it in the preview of RAW file
(4) However NR will be applied when I convert to JPG, and this will cause the JPG to be softer than RAW preview
Should I set Luminance NR to 0? The images were broad daylight, shot at ISO 400, so I guess no Noise Reduction is needed (probably up to ISO 800 on my 50D, I would guess none is needed)?
Just go to Edit Image window -> Tools, third tab (if I remember correct) and set Luminance NR to 0, then probably save this as recipe and batch apply to any images I have coming out of my camera?
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #6
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

I googled a bit and noticed that the topic of default Luminance NR setting in DPP comes up quite a few times. Can anyone here confirm that they have had similar experience i.e. seeing soft JPG images after conversion, but no softness in RAW preview in DPP, and fixed it by changing their Luminance NR setting down to 0?
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Last edited by pawelx : 7th of April 2009 (Tue) at 10:26.
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #7
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

In DPP's Preferences you have a choice of choosing a default NR or having DPP read and apply the camera setting. The problem is that if you choose the second option and the camera is set to 0 NR, DPP gives you LNR = 2. That is why I advise selecting the first option and 0/0.
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Old 7th of April 2009 (Tue)   #8
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

Also, compare sharpness in different applications at 100%.
If resized to "fit to screen", the interpolation will cause you to see differences that aren't in the file.
Have a look in this thread: Same problem: Thread
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Old 9th of April 2009 (Thu)   #9
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Default Re: DPP: saving to JPG gives softer images? Or just my laptop screen?

I ran into the same problem and found the answer, for me anyway, by accident. I could not get a resized image to look good no matter what advise I followed. Then I realized my default settings in DPP opened an image "fit to screen" and double clicking went to 100%. Well I found out that by double clicking on the resized image to get it to 100% actually made the image smaller and sharper. I just never occurred to my tiny little brain that 100% would be smaller on screen than fit to screen since with the original raw file if I did the double click it would zoom in and make the image too large to fit all on the screen.

To sum it up, try double clicking on the image and see if the size goes down and the sharpness goes up.
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