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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography
Thread started 14 Apr 2005 (Thursday) 23:40
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Photos at a Profesional sporting event, is it OK too....?

 
byso
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Apr 14, 2005 23:40 |  #1

If you pay $20- to enter a stadium to watch professional sport and you're allowed to take you're camera inside. Is it OK too?


1. Post photo's of cheerleader & Players on the gallery website, without a players knowledge?

2. Post photo's of fans who know there photo will end up on the gallery website?

3. Sell the photo's of the Athletes etc from the site? This could be without the player or clubs permission!

I was talking to a pro photographer and he said that you can sell them, but you can only sell the print twice. Then you should DELETE the file!

FYI the club is happy for me to place my photo's on my site, but what if I didn't ask permission or if they decided to saying NO?


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IndyJeff
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Apr 15, 2005 00:05 |  #2

I don't know about Austrailian pro sports but, here in the US, it is a no brainer. You don't do it.

byso wrote:
If you pay $20- to enter a stadium to watch professional sport and you're allowed to take you're camera inside. Is it OK too?
If they let you take a camera in then feel free to shoot. I would think that displaying with the intentions of selling would not be allowed.


1. Post photo's of cheerleader & Players on the gallery website, without a players knowledge?

Release....need I say more?

2. Post photo's of fans who know there photo will end up on the gallery website?
In a public place there is no expectation of privacy but, if someone would request that their image not be displayed I would think it wise to remove it.

3. Sell the photo's of the Athletes etc from the site? This could be without the player or clubs permission!
Here in the states, doing that will land you smack dab in the middle of a lawsuit, from the league and the athlete.

I was talking to a pro photographer and he said that you can sell them, but you can only sell the print twice. Then you should DELETE the file!
If you are allowed to sell them then why should you delete the file? Sounds fishy to me, best not try it.

FYI the club is happy for me to place my photo's on my site, but what if I didn't ask permission or if they decided to saying NO?
Will they be happy if your profiting from their trademark, image rights, logo, etc, etc? The NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR, IRL, CCWS, NCAA, USAC and every other sanctioning body I can think of controls the rights to their images. There are only two ways you can sell them, editorially or with a license to market that product.

DISCLAIMER
Be advise all of the above information is based upon law here in the states. Laws may vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. See your attorney for proper legal advise.


On shooting sports...If you see it happen then you didn't get it.

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byso
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Apr 15, 2005 00:23 |  #3

Thanks mate it's good to get a different perspective. It seem's a confusing issue.

Release....need I say more? (pordan my ignorance?) what do you mean? Do I need get the athletes permission to post the photo on a site?


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Wazza
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Apr 15, 2005 03:20 as a reply to byso's post |  #4

If you have the permission from every person involved, I don't see what's wrong. But you are trying to sell photos. I've shot before at a cricket match, just for fun, but many people had cameras there. It was only for personal use. Lucky in Australia, there aren't those silly lawsuits.. Just a few rules, where you get slapped on the wrist if you get it wrong.


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byso
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Apr 15, 2005 04:01 |  #5

I bet you would have enjoyed photographing the Aussies smacking the black cats around.....lol........

I'm asking about posting the photos on a website in a gallery format for supporters to look at. There on a different site to the club supporter website (manly NRL). I have the OK....but were would I stand if I didn't?
I'm just trying to see if it's generally OK to do that. As far as selling them goes, thats a totally different story. I'm not really worried about that yet!


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defordphoto
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Apr 15, 2005 05:48 |  #6

byso wrote:
If you pay $20- to enter a stadium to watch professional sport and you're allowed to take you're camera inside. Is it OK too?


1. Post photo's of cheerleader & Players on the gallery website, without a players knowledge?

2. Post photo's of fans who know there photo will end up on the gallery website?

3. Sell the photo's of the Athletes etc from the site? This could be without the player or clubs permission!

I was talking to a pro photographer and he said that you can sell them, but you can only sell the print twice. Then you should DELETE the file!

FYI the club is happy for me to place my photo's on my site, but what if I didn't ask permission or if they decided to saying NO?

1. Yes. They are at a public event. No model releases needed.
2. See #1
3. Absolutely not.

The alleged pro you talked to is on crack.


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IndyJeff
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Apr 15, 2005 08:17 as a reply to defordphoto's post |  #7

The alleged pro you talked to is on crack.


Bwhahahahaha Jim I was kind of thinking the same thing. Either that or this guy thinks he might have some competition and if he gets this new guy into trouble, no worries about the competition anymore.


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defordphoto
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Apr 15, 2005 08:40 as a reply to IndyJeff's post |  #8

IndyJeff wrote:
Bwhahahahaha Jim I was kind of thinking the same thing. Either that or this guy thinks he might have some competition and if he gets this new guy into trouble, no worries about the competition anymore.

:lol: Yeah. Sell only two copies. That's one of the most silliest statements I have ever heard. I would have loved to have been there...


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elkootcho
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Apr 15, 2005 11:00 |  #9

Post photo's of cheerleader & Players on the gallery website, without a players knowledge?

Indy Jeff: . Release....need I say more?
RFMSports: 1. Yes. They are at a public event. No model releases needed.

Two competing responses. If they're not used for commercial purposes, which is correct?

Does anyone know of a book or website that spells this stuff out? Like most laws, it's totally confusing.


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jukas
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Apr 15, 2005 11:45 as a reply to defordphoto's post |  #10

RFMSports wrote:
1. Yes. They are at a public event. No model releases needed.
2. See #1
3. Absolutely not.

The alleged pro you talked to is on crack.

I'm a little confused on #1.. since it's not truely a public event, but a private event on private property that he paid an admission fee for, wouldn't he need a release from the event holder to sell or use the photos in a non editorial fashion? Or have I misunderstood the need for releases in that instance?


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IndyJeff
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Apr 15, 2005 12:35 as a reply to jukas's post |  #11

Technically a release would be needed but, in general getting a signed release would put an undue burden upon the photographer which would render the task undoable.
In general terms, if you do something like this, posting images froma game on the internet and someone objects, you simply apologize and remove the image. They can't drag you into court because you displayed their image. Their are hoops they must jump thru first. A cease and desist letter is the first step. Ignore that and you will be looking at a judge in the near future.

Now if you are selling those images, a C & D letter will still be mailed and there could be a suit for recovery of income derived from the use of that persons image.

Jukas as for you confusion, if it is a public event and the image is used in an editorial context, then no release is needed. Now lets say you have a shot of some hot looking girl standing, clapping for her team. You post it with a caption, "Fans cheer on the Tigers in their win over the Red Sox", that would be an editorial use. Now if you take that shot and sell it for anyone and everyone to hang on their wall, yes she is that good looking, then you have violated her right to control her own image and she is due compensation. If you have a signed release, then she can cry all she wants and you don't owe her a dime.


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byso
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Apr 15, 2005 14:04 |  #12

Some great responses, Thanks

The "pro" on crack comment is a classic. I was certainly surprised by the "pro's" comment.
Maybe his angle was that you can’t mass sell a photo because the more you sell it, the value would become less. I suppose if you sold a photo for a $1000 to a newspaper or magazine if you then sold the same photo to 5 other competitors the original purchaser would get very annoyed.

From the sounds of things it's certainly OK to post the photos on a web gallery. Asking for trouble though, if you sell them. I don't think I’ll sell them.

Out of interest what type of photos can you sell then?

From the sounds of things you can only sell scenery photos, nothing with people in it unless you have a “release”?


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jukas
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Apr 15, 2005 14:17 as a reply to byso's post |  #13

byso wrote:
From the sounds of things you can only sell scenery photos, nothing with people in it unless you have a “release”?

If you tried to sell an image of a identifiable private property you'd need a property release!

Public land landscapes are still free through ;)


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S230
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Apr 15, 2005 14:20 |  #14

Here's my 2.3 cents (Includes TAX in Canada),

If you would like to make some money, try contact the coach and have him take care of the model release forms amd give him and whoever's in the photo a cut of the profit.


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Avalonthas
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Apr 15, 2005 18:43 |  #15

In Canada you can take pics of anyone including chearleaders, fans, and players as long as they are not used for commericial purposes....unless there is an agreement of course. The only case where you can sell them is to a newspaper, and basically the paper takes responsiblity after that so ur free from any prosecution.


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Photos at a Profesional sporting event, is it OK too....?
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