Using Tables

[Zipline]

Rather than hijacking this thread, I decided to start a new one with this question. In the thread above, someone posted that using tables is no longer acceptable in web design. I'm just curious as to why. Granted, I know there are clearly better methods, but for someone like me - who has gone table happy - I find working with tables to be very easy. What is the TRUE downside? I'd like to learn more about CSS, but as of right now I know tables and I love tables (for perfectly aligning text) which is why I'm using them.

[Jonta]

I have the awesome power of Google fu. With this predigious skill I searched. And I found. (Over nine thousand.)

[Zipline]

Originally Posted by Jonta

I have the awesome power of Google fu. With this predigious skill I searched. And I found. (Over nine thousand.)

Wow... are you always this friendly?

I know all about Google, but I prefer to hear (or in this case) read things first hand to interact with other people. I can read things til I'm blue in the face, but for me personally, I get a lot more out of being able to ask questions from different people.

[John_B]

Zipline,
I personally used to always use tables also, but lately I am switching to CSS and div's Not because its needed as most browsers (I test on 3 regularly) see tables the same, but just to familiarize myself with another way.
Hey I still use <br> not <br />

[AlphaChicken]

And to answer your question about Jonta...yes he is always like that...a jerk imho.

[Jonta]

Originally Posted by Zipline

Wow... are you always this friendly?

Originally Posted by AlphaChicken

And to answer your question about Jonta...yes he is always like that...a jerk imho.

Although this is horribly off topic: It is nice to know that the question has at least been researched beforehand, which makes for a much more meaningful discussion.

[Faolan]

Table designed sites are a kludge, a very, very bad kludge that are a nightmare to maintain. They have massive overheads for both the server and client, in that the server has to serve larger files (consuming bandwidth) and also client who has to render the table first then the content.

Tables are for tabular data and not for building sites. You can see this when you try to fathom out what the hell is going on in a table site. It took me 2-3 days the last time I looked at a table based site to figure out what everything did without breaking anything else, that's before I started the updates the client wanted. In the end I told the client to scrap the site next time round they wanted it updated.

[grimm5577]

It's just no-longer the acceptable practice. Here is some good reading.

About.com CSS

But to some it up, tables are only meant to be used for tabular data, like how Excel uses tables. it is not meant for content or images. Tables make editing a site tricky, they make load times slower, Search engines can't read data in them.

Once you learn and understand CSS you will be happy never to use a table again.

[Mocows]

It's been said but tables have large overhead. Sure small tables are fine, even larger ones aren't bad but when you start applying styles and javascript to individual cells, you're going to break sites quite fast. And Repositioning data is silly.

[Phillydigishooter]

For a few pages tables is the only way to go. For many pages with the same layout, fonts..etc I would agree to use CSS It really comes down to an opinion.

A good source to use http://www.webmonkey.com

[grimm5577]

Originally Posted by Phillydigishooter

For a few pages tables is the only way to go. For many pages with the same layout, fonts..etc I would agree to use CSS It really comes down to an opinion.

A good source to use http://www.webmonkey.com

The ONLY way to go?
I have to disagree, and anyone in the webdesign community that understands what search engines are looking for and knows css will disagree as well. Tables should only be used for tabulature data. Think about it... would you use Excel to layout a photo proof sheet, or design a flyer? NO... so why would you use Excel to design a web page? it's not the right tool for the job. 1 page or 50 pages you should use CSS.

People that say it's ok to use tables are too lazy to learn CSS. CSS makes desiging a site much easier and faster and if they knew how to use it they would never tell you to use tables again.

[symphony-x]

coding in tables, fir starters, doesnt make sense. table coding was designed for spreadsheet style structures, and suprise suprise, tables.

CSS is designed for webdesign and IS the ONLY way to go.

It's neater, more user friendly, and above all else, easier to use... not to mention more versatile

[Zipline]

Originally Posted by grimm5577

People that say it's ok to use tables are too lazy to learn CSS.

Wow! Thanks for calling me lazy.

I must say, that I definitely disagree with this statement. I'm not lazy at all. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even know that CSS even existed until very recently. I will give it a go to learn it as time allows, but for now I'm using tables. I know tables. I'm used to using tables. So, rather than take my entire site off the interent JUST because I'm using tables on it, I'll continue to use it until I know CSS enough to go without them.

[Phillydigishooter]

BTW if you look at the page source you will find various scripting methods. Some have embedded CSS and external CSS with tables. Others just tables. Zipline use what you are comfortable with.

I didn't say I didn't know how to deploy CSS, and I am not a lazy coder or afraid to learn new methods. So I also disagree with grimm5577 statement.

Tables can be used for many purposes not just spread sheets with numbers. Just look at a 2d database which is nothing more than a flat table.

[Keltab]

Zipline - the thing to ask yourself - "Am I happy with my site right now, and is it accomplishing what I need it to do?" If yes, then tables are fine for now and you can take your time developing newer pages with CSS and other technology. If the answer is no, then you might need to jump in a bit faster and focus on CSS, etc...
However, your use of tables does not indicate laziness nor a lack of technological skill. It could simply be you are spending more time shooting or doing other things that you prefer to spend your time on.
Make your site what you want - if you are happy and it works, then you're fine!