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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography
Thread started 01 Jul 2009 (Wednesday) 14:54
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Second Shooter Wedding Rates & Woes

 
aroundlsu
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Jul 01, 2009 14:54 |  #1

I was hired a few months ago to work a wedding as a second shooter with my own gear (gear listed in my signature). The photographer paid me $800 + $300 expenses. I thought this was very fair since I had to travel a few hours and would stay the night before so I would be well rested for the day. We shot for about 8 hours and then I handed the cards over at the end of the night, got paid, and that was it.

What a great gig I thought! I like shooting weddings, but always hated dealing with the months of work beforehand and the lifetime of work after. As a second shooter, I can make a decent rate and not have to deal with any of the headaches.

So this week I started contacting every photographer in my city - hundreds of them - armed with the finished shots and high praise from the last photographer. I crafted a nice email and, to my delight, immediately started getting replies and requests to contact them as there was work to be had.

I picked up the phone and started calling, replied to dozens of emails, and had generally a very positive welcoming until... they asked what my rate was. $100/hour if I use my gear, $50/hour if I use yours. If it's in town, I can book 4 hour half days or 8 hour full days. Out of town shoots are 8 hours or more plus travel. EVERYONE'S reply was exactly the same: :shock: "You've got to be kidding? We pay $15/hour and you provide the gear and that's it." One guy even just plain hung up.

Others said get back to us if you want to work for $15/hour. Several asked how old I was (because they had problems with younger photographers apparently) to which I promptly replied that's irrelevant and even illegal to ask.

So now I'm wondering what the hell is going on out there in second shooter land? I've worked in commercial television and film my entire life, and $15/hour would be a joke to hire a guy with his own gear. Even staff guys using company gear make more than that. Should I give up my email barrage or keep going? Am I being unreasonable?


Teddy Smith, SOC
IATSE Local 600 Cinematographer

www.TeddySmithSOC.com (external link)

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stevefossimages
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Ely, Minnesota
Jul 01, 2009 15:32 |  #2

I'd latch on to the first photographer who paid you what you deserved. If you can become his/her regular second shooter you'll have a whole career going on. All the fun without all the hassle.


Steve Foss
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For weddings, reunions, workshops, Realty and guided wilderness photo excursions: www.stevefossimages.co​m (external link)

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Megapixle
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Jul 01, 2009 15:32 |  #3

It's supply and demand, just like everything else in life. There are boatloads of people that would be more than willing to work for much less than $100/hour, so why would they pay you $100/hour?

So yes, I guess that means you're being unreasonable.


Gear

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Ralph ­ Merlino
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Jul 01, 2009 22:08 as a reply to Megapixle's post |  #4

Most of the second shooters that I have talked to
seem to get around $250.00 for a wedding.




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aroundlsu
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Jul 01, 2009 22:45 as a reply to Ralph Merlino's post |  #5

Is that using their own cameras?


Teddy Smith, SOC
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tim
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Wellington, New Zealand
Jul 01, 2009 22:58 |  #6

$100/hr is unreasonable IMHO. You'd have to be pretty good if you want to be paid $50/hr too. 2nd shooters are nice to have, not essential.


Professional wedding photographer, solution architect and general technical guy with multiple Amazon Web Services certifications.
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aroundlsu
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Jul 01, 2009 23:36 as a reply to tim's post |  #7

You guys are charging two to three grand for a wedding and you feel another $400 (which you just bill the bride for) is unreasonable?


Teddy Smith, SOC
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Karl ­ Johnston
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Jul 02, 2009 00:18 |  #8
banned

I think you just gotta find that guy you originally worked for, or more of them. Not every print sells for 1100$, nor 3500..most of mine sell 40-200 $ each (I do fine art/retail photography). Know what I mean?

Sometimes you find that big buyer..sometimes you get lucky.. other times most people are looking to low-ball the hell out of you.

Keep looking for that big buyer but don't limit yourself if you can't; any job is better than no job, 15 $ an hour is better than 0.

Whether its logical or reasonable has no terms in business; you need to find your market. . Look at walmart. god knows their reputation is not at all "reasonable" in their business practices but they're the wealthiest players in the game.


Adventurous Photographer, Writerexternal link & Wedding Photographerexternal link

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tim
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Jul 02, 2009 01:37 |  #9

aroundlsu wrote in post #8210286external link
You guys are charging two to three grand for a wedding and you feel another $400 (which you just bill the bride for) is unreasonable?

You can't just lump another $400 onto the bill, that increases your price and reduces the chance you'll get the work to start with. If it's an option very few people will take it.

How much of that $3000 we charge do you think is profit? I'll give you a clue - far less than you'd imagine. When you factor in the huge number of expenses and overheads like equipment purchase and repair, albums (which cost a BOMB), prints, accountant, computer equipment, software, etc, then take away sales and income tax, the profit from an individual wedding is not what you might expect. I spent enough on wedding albums last year to buy a new car. For each wedding $400 is a significant proportion of the profit.

Honestly, 2nd shooters might take a few nice shots, but there's no way they'd pay for themselves in print sales. The couple can only have one person take a photo of them at a time, except for print which doesn't sell, and the extra candids aren't worth much.

I think you need to consider the value you add and price yourself accordingly.


Professional wedding photographer, solution architect and general technical guy with multiple Amazon Web Services certifications.
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

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Karl ­ Johnston
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Jul 02, 2009 02:02 |  #10
banned

"When value cannot be objectified, it cannot be subjectively added."

How would you feel if you got a car bill from a mechanic who had an apprentice work on your car for a mechanic's work rate? It's unethical, though, happens all the time..(bastards!)

Besides the point..I hope you get the picture

By the way, have you got a website or something? That could help find you work, online as a 2nd shooter. Check the classifieds forum; there's always someone looking for someone to do a wedding/backup/last minute thing in there. I also want to see the picture in your avatar up close, it looks kinda cool with the flare thingie happening ...though I can't make out what it is


Adventurous Photographer, Writerexternal link & Wedding Photographerexternal link

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form
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Henderson, NV
Jul 02, 2009 02:03 |  #11

I've been shooting weddings for a little over a year now and I don't charge quite $100/hour even as a primary photographer. I think $100/hour is very generous for a second shooter unless they're experienced and quite skilled. I've made up to $40/hour for second shooter jobs, but I would feel very uncomfortable asking for more.


Las Vegas Wedding Photographer: http://www.joeyallenph​oto.comexternal link

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Karl ­ Johnston
Cream of the Crop
9,334 posts
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Jul 02, 2009 02:15 |  #12
banned

Hey look what I found!
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=717937 (400$ 2nd shooter)
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=717442 (150$ assistant)
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=714357 (pay is "low" but stat is a good photographer)

Just gotta look around


Adventurous Photographer, Writerexternal link & Wedding Photographerexternal link

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Gatorboy
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Jul 02, 2009 07:32 |  #13

$100 per hour of shooting might be reasonable if you culled your images and delivered edited/toned, print-ready images, rather than just the flash cards at the end of the event.


Dave Hoffmann

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tim
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Jul 02, 2009 07:54 |  #14

Gatorboy wrote in post #8211298external link
$100 per hour of shooting might be reasonable if you culled your images and delivered edited/toned, print-ready images, rather than just the flash cards at the end of the event.

Sure, but I still really don't see how a 2nd shooter helps all that much. An assistant who occasionally shoots is far more useful to me.


Professional wedding photographer, solution architect and general technical guy with multiple Amazon Web Services certifications.
Read all my FAQs (wedding, printing, lighting, books, etc)

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Gatorboy
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Jul 02, 2009 08:10 |  #15

tim wrote in post #8211370external link
Sure, but I still really don't see how a 2nd shooter helps all that much. An assistant who occasionally shoots is far more useful to me.

I agree.


Dave Hoffmann

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