Sports mode with depth of field / poor action focus

[Martin Dixon]

Using a canon 500d with F2.8 17-55 IS zoom to take action shots I have tried several settings but the obvious one is the "sports" mode, which is good but I often get out of focus pictures, even in the brightest sunshine. This is specially true if there is a slightly nearer object than the face I want to capture (e.g. a handle on playground see-saw). The depth of field is very narrow, so I need to reduce aperture, but that doesn't seem to be an option. This is a bit annoying as it seems like the expensive lens I chose is actually problem in that the camera often choses the largest aperture ( F2.8 ) and a low iso.

I can probably set up the camera in Aperture priority but this is difficult (time consuming) as I use the camera for a wide variety of subject and these are very much get-the-picture-ASAP situations.

Possibly completely automatic mode might be better? but seems a bit hit or miss.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance for any tips!

e.g.
Camera Model Canon EOS 500D
Firmware Firmware Version 1.0.9
Shooting Mode Sports
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/500
Av( Aperture Value ) 2.8
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 100
Auto ISO Speed ON
Lens EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Focal Length 52.0 mm
Image Size 4752x3168
Image Quality Fine
Flash Off
FE lock OFF
White Balance Mode Auto
AF Mode AI Servo AF
Picture Style Standard
Sharpness 3
Contrast 0
Saturation 0
Color tone 0

[Sorarse]

As you have discovered, leaving the camera in fully automatic mode doesn't always work. Clever though it is, it doesn't know what you are trying to achieve when you take your photographs, and so will be unable to provide the best solution. In sport mode, it assumes that you are trying to take pictures of moving objects and will give you settings to a chieve a fairly high shutter speed to freeze motion. The downside of this is that to achieve a fast shutter speed often means using a large aperture, resulting in a shallow depth of field.

I don't quite understand why you say that using aperture priority is difficult. As long as the lighting conditions aren't changing rapidly, you can set your aperture at the start of your shoot and pretty much forget about it. Try setting it to 5.6 or even 8.0 if lighting conditions allow, and see how you get on.

[Martin Dixon]

Thanks Sorase. What I meand by "difficult" is that each time you would have to set up Av with mostly same settings as "sport". Unless I am mistaken, you can't "save" more than the "current" such setups to quickly re-use when you need them. Nor is there a simple reset to default values for each mode(?).

With a bit of practice I guess I can do this, but I often find it is easy to forget some fancy setting I made and this can ruin the photos next tome I pick up the camera - I seem to do this every so often with exposure compensation.

[DStanic]

I like Tv mode for sports. Set the shutter speed for 1/250 (or whatever you think is appropriate) and let it choose the aperture. You may want to increase the ISO to ISO200 or maybe even ISO400 so that it will give you more depth of field (easier to focus). AI-servo usually works best.

[tdodd]

Martin, it might help if you post an example image, to show us what you are shooting and how you are framing the shot. The 17-55 lens seems an unusual choice for "action" shots, as it is so short. Are you sure the problem is with motion blur or DOF rather than focus? Show us what you're shooting - an unedited, uncropped example with EXIF intact - and then we might be able to offer better advice.

Remember, with AI Servo, if you are using all focus points then you must first lock focus with the centre point before the other points can then take over if the subject moves within the frame. Also, if the subject is too small to cover more than one focus point at a time then the camera will not be able to follow focus if you lose track of the subject.

p.s. with a lens as short as the 17-55 I would be surprised if DOF was your problem, even at f/2.8, unless you have a very "close-up" shooting style. As an example, this was shot at 24mm and f/2.8 (handheld at 1/13)....

[usukshooter]

It's interesting because there was just a topic in the sports section about how F/2.8 is more desirable than even F/4 with sports. A shallow DOF is often more desirable in sports since it seperates the subject from background so much more.

http://photo.net/learn/sports/overview?p=2

Most all dramatic sports photos are shot with the lens wide open or one stop from wide open. This is done for two reasons. First you need all the shutter speed you can get, which means shooting wide open, but just as important, it has to do with isolating the subject. As the aperture on a lens opens up, less and less of the photo is in focus. The longer the lens, the more dramatic the change. The larger the distance between the subject and the background the more out of focus the background will come. If you use a long lens and a fast aperture, then your subject will stand out and the background elements will have less impact on your photo.

As mentioned, unless you're shooting very close up to the subject, DOF shouldn't be a negative thing even at F/2.8. Are you letting the camera choose the focus points? If so, that may be your problem - set the focus points yourself.

[PhotosGuy]

What I meand by "difficult" is that each time you would have to set up Av with mostly same settings as "sport". Unless I am mistaken, you can't "save" more than the "current" such setups to quickly re-use when you need them. Nor is there a simple reset to default values for each mode(?).

Most of what I shoot is on manual, but for something like an air show with jets and prop jobs, I'll set Tv to a speed for the props & maybe Av for another situation.
Need an exposure crutch?
Why?
Post #47

With a bit of practice I guess I can do this, but I often find it is easy to forget some fancy setting I made and this can ruin the photos next tome I pick up the camera - I seem to do this every so often with exposure compensation.

Every new situation is an opportunity to put your personal input into a image, so "next tome I pick up the camera" is just another opportunity to ThiMk about what you're doing?

Start with this:
Sports Shooting Tutorials and Advice

[Martin Dixon]

Example 1 showing varied focus of nearly same distance parts of subject
Shooting Mode Sports
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/640
Av( Aperture Value ) 3.5
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 100
Auto ISO Speed ON
Lens EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Focal Length 55.0 mm

[Martin Dixon]

Example 2 fast moving close-ish subject - just missing on focus
Shooting Mode Sports
Tv( Shutter Speed ) 1/500
Av( Aperture Value ) 2.8
Metering Mode Evaluative Metering
Exposure Compensation 0
ISO Speed 100
Auto ISO Speed ON
Lens EF-S17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM
Focal Length 55.0 mm

BTW found this forum today - really brilliant! thanks for the advice so far!

[tdodd]

A few points....

- You are shooting with a low end consumer level camera, not a camera with pro spec AF;

- You are close to your subject, which means that the closing (or retreating) distance is changing quite rapidly in terms of %age of distance per second;

- The velocity of the subject is changing continually so the odds of your consumer level camera, or even a pro grade camera, being able to accurately track and predict where the subject will be next are probably quite low;

- You are shooting with a 15MP crop sensor and when you view at 100%, as I assume those crops to be, the magnification factor is massive, and completely alters calculations for DOF and acceptable shutter speeds to freeze motion;

- In the second image it is clear the centre focus point is not in your subject at all. It is actually on the background. Quite how successful the camera would be at holding focus correctly, I do not know, but can we assume that you did start focus tracking by locking onto the boy's face with the centre point, before expecting the camera to maintain focus on that part of the subject?

When you take all of the above into account I fear your expectations may be a little ambitious. Unfortunately, I do not have a 500D and I do not photograph children on swings, so I don't know whether in fact your expectations are unrealistic; I'm just throwing out the possibility. Maybe others can chip in.

If you want to at least try and improve the results for situations like this then it might be worth shooting in manual mode, setting a shutter speed of at least 1/800, aperture of f/4 and an ISO that gives you a correct exposure. On a sunny day you could shoot at 1/800, f/5.6, 100 ISO. If it's not full sunshine then bump the ISO a bit until you get the exposure you need. You''ll also find it much easier to get accurate exposures if you set a manual exposure, rather than having autoexposure dancing all over the place as your subject moves about within the scene.

[Martin Dixon]

Thanks Tim, you are right I have gone for a cheaper camera than the lens on the basis that a) I shouldn't really be spending this much b) I (clearly) have a lot to learn, c) I imagine great improvements in cameras will happen quite quickly and I might get a better one before in a few years before my lenses become obsolete.

I have been pretty pleased with improvements in percentage of in-focus photos I can take. I do tend to take a lot of pics that are unlikely to come out well in the hope of getting something special (e.g one end of bouncing see-saw to the other - the camera bounces more than anything!). In fact some photos even in this session are OK, but not predicatable which they would be.

Really grateful for your advice. I did some similar shots today in less light, fixed aperture, center only autofocus and there was marked improvement.

[CosmoKid]

You got a lot of good advise here. The 500d should do fine in what you are trying to do. You just need to get used to the camera and how it works.

Avoid the auto modes as much as possible. They will only hinder your learning.

On that second picture, if you pixel peep, I would bet your focal point ends up somewhere around his hands on the rail. This is a guess based on the physics of the boy on the swing and the speed of your camera.